Steinmetz
Active Member
Was curious about that, I'll be sure to look into that. Russian markets fell over 30% yesterday, so they're hurting as well. Though, the sanction response across the board seems weaker than was threatened thus far.
The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread
- Thread starter Feanor
- Start date
Steinmetz
Active Member
A lot has been made clear within the past 30 minutes. Apparently large numbers of Russian SoF are inside various parts of Kiev. Gun-battles can now be heard sporadically within the city. Russian reinforcements flowing en-masse from all directions. There was a story floating around that some Russian SoF actually posed as Ukrainian soldiers driving around toward Kiev's center. It seems to be more FAKE NEWS being put out, V markings we're seen on those vehicles in question. Who knows what is fully real or clear. But what it clear, fighting is now within Kiev. Also seems clear the VDV is in control of Hostomel and are directing traffic. Again, I don't blame the Ukrainians necessarily, because it's a desperate situation.
Russian tanks flying the Soviet flag in Kherson.
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1497117468652982272/photo/1
I feel like they've trapped the Ukrainians in several pockets at this point and what we did see yesterday was just forward elements and Russian SoF setting up bridgeheads for this main push.
Russian tanks flying the Soviet flag in Kherson.
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1497117468652982272/photo/1
I feel like they've trapped the Ukrainians in several pockets at this point and what we did see yesterday was just forward elements and Russian SoF setting up bridgeheads for this main push.
Was Geoge W put on trial for the 2003 invasion of Iraq? Millions died. There's your answer.
Steinmetz
Active Member
To correct myself: It seems reports of Russians putting on UA uniforms and trying to infiltrate were true. They seem to have been neutralized. Battle for Kiev continues.
While I want to believe in better, it is probably just the matter of time the Ukraine will be occupied (at least the parts of it). Will it be the same way as in Georgia?
The country is left alone after the defeat and acceptance of the demands or it will be properly occupied with the new government? The last option seems to be difficult for Russia to implement and keep running in the long-term, not only because of the money.
The country is left alone after the defeat and acceptance of the demands or it will be properly occupied with the new government? The last option seems to be difficult for Russia to implement and keep running in the long-term, not only because of the money.
Or Blair. Or Yelstin and Putin for civilian deaths in Chechnya. Or various iMddle East individuals [not only Arabs] with blood on their hands. The impression on gets is that only former African warlords, Khmer Rouge officials and individuals from the former Yugoslavia get brought to court for we crimes.
Rock the kasbah
Active Member
I'm pretty sure we could go along way further back than that
If you want to know who smote who,. I reckon the place where we just visited could really fill you in.
My meagre understanding is that the Ukrainian people are choosing not to be smote
Go hard Ukraine
Musashi_kenshin
Well-Known Member
Millions did not die during the invasion. The actual invasion was relatively bloodless because the Iraqi military mostly surrendered. The "millions" dead is the highest estimate of all the deaths caused during the following insurgency and continued conflict after the US left. It also does not take into account the fact that the vast majority of the dead were from insurgent bombings and other attacks.
In contrast Putin is going to be responsible for pretty much all the deaths in Ukraine. It's also certain that unlike the US Coalition he will not take any care to try to minimise civilian casualties. Also unlike Iraq in 2003, Ukraine poses no threat to regional security nor was it sanctioned by the UN in advance of Russia's invasion.
Whilst technically Bush Junior could have been charged with war crimes, what Putin has done is far more serious.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
It will be interesting to know, which Ukrainian people that's going to resist all the way. I got business colleague station in Moscow, but with relatives in Kharkiv. His relative more or less just hunkering down, but not choose to evacuate. They say, whether it's Kyiev or Moscow, will not be different much.
That population attitude, I do think will matter later as one of choices on which part of Ukraine that Putin want to hold.
That population attitude, I do think will matter later as one of choices on which part of Ukraine that Putin want to hold.
Interestingly, the longer the operation goes on, the harder it would be to control the area as the number of people, that doubt which side to support moves quickly to the pro-Ukrainian side.
I suppose the longer the Ukraine / Kyiv will hold the better chance to trade the peace agreement that will be not treated as complete defeat (even if it will be, the population attitude about it might be different).
There is an opinion that with current forces it will be impossible to occupy and hold all the major cities compared to the forces Russia needed in Chechnya with doubtful situation there even now. It might give a hint that the idea is to force a peace agreement by just continuous attacks and / or sizing the Kyiv, not all the cities.
From DW:
US actor and director Sean Penn is in Kyiv again, to film a documentary about Russia's invasion, the Ukrainian president's office said Thursday. Penn previously visited Ukraine and met with military staff in November 2021. "The director came to Kyiv specifically to record all the events taking place in Ukraine and as a documentary filmmaker to tell the world the truth about Russia's invasion of our country," said a post in Ukrainian on the presidential office's Facebook page.
US actor and director Sean Penn is in Kyiv again, to film a documentary about Russia's invasion, the Ukrainian president's office said Thursday. Penn previously visited Ukraine and met with military staff in November 2021. "The director came to Kyiv specifically to record all the events taking place in Ukraine and as a documentary filmmaker to tell the world the truth about Russia's invasion of our country," said a post in Ukrainian on the presidential office's Facebook page.
Shanesworld
Well-Known Member
Sorry mate but thats from a flight sim called dcs. Saw the original of that with english comments sawing as much.
Regards Putins motivations the below link from 4 years ago from Peter Zeihan might provide some value.
Ok, thanks for verification, there are lots of fakes emerging
Can you probably give a link to the original video?
Ananda
The Bunker Group
I wrote in this thread on Putin end game is to carve Ukraine, not to control all. I come to that after talking with my colleagues in Moscow and those who have more specialities on Russian and Near Russian market. We Finance people being paid to read politics to gauge where the direction end game will be.
My colleagues talk on how Russian media and politics talk about history, how the East and South Ukraine was given by Lenin to Ukraine, how the population in East and South being push down by right wing Nazi in Kyiev and West, etc. According to them shown Putin aim is carving East and South.
When I ask them why ? They say, it is where the coasts are. Putin want to control all Ukraine Coasts, since by that he can control around 2/3 of Black Sea.
Off course it is all speculations, however I also see Ukranian defense offcials tweets that talking their facing much harder situation in East and South. Perhaps my bankers colleagues assesment can be right. Is East and South Ukraine that Putin aim to carve.
Putin him self talk to demiliterise Ukraine. However if Ukraine can hold longer, the more preferable settlement they can bargain with. I think the result on the ground this week, will determine that.
Not in the millions as the actual numbers don't matter but they died in large number and horrific circumstances at the hands of other Iraqis and at the hands of the Coalition [despite the Colation making great attempts to avoid civilian casualties]. The invasion also created the conditions which led to the sectarian war which at one point was killing an average of 300 Iraqis daily.. The rise of IS is also related to the highly flawed and self serving invasion which eventually destabilised the whole region ..
The only ones he was a threat to by 2003 was his fellow Iraqis, not to his neighbours and certainly not to the countries which pushed for the invasion on the grounds that Iraq possessed WMDs.
That's a matter of opinion. Depends on who you ask. An Iraqi who lost his family In a Coaltion strike for being at the wrong time at the wrong place [''collateral damage'' the military euphimism] or whose Sunni cousin had his head chopped off because he captured by a Shia group which was aligned with the Yanks might disagree.
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Musashi_kenshin
Well-Known Member
Of course they matter, especially on a forum like this. There's no reason to exaggerate or be vague.
Putting aside the justification for the invasion, even the UN weapons inspectors found that he'd been secretly working on a new missile programme. It was fairly clear that he was working to have sanctions lifted - France and Russia were already on his side on that front. So he did pose a threat to the region, if not at that moment then certainly in the future. Whereas Ukraine does not pose any such threat to the region.
If you bring subjective opinion into it, sure, everyone is going to say what happens to them is the worst. So let's put every political leader on trial.
Or we can be objective.
We have reached now the point where 2 sides have completely opposite numbers:
Ukraine says they destroyed > 1000 Russians, Russia says they have no losses at all (it was somewhere on TASS, I will not post it as it make no sense).
Also Russia announced during talks with China they are ready for talks with Ukraine.
Fun fact: China announced it earlier than Russia.
www.swissinfo.ch
Could it be that China used Russia in the same way as NATO used Ukraine?
Russia is under sanctions, and will depend on China more. And China has some investments in Ukraine. I think Putin is quite afraid of Xi, especially when there is nearly nothing left at the eastern borders of Russia.
Ukraine says they destroyed > 1000 Russians, Russia says they have no losses at all (it was somewhere on TASS, I will not post it as it make no sense).
Also Russia announced during talks with China they are ready for talks with Ukraine.
Fun fact: China announced it earlier than Russia.
Putin tells Xi that Russia willing to hold high-level talks with Ukraine, China says
BEIJING (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin told his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping in a call on Friday that Russia is willing to hold high level talks with Ukraine, China's foreign ministry said. China has refused to call Russia's action in Ukraine an "invasion" or criticise Moscow...
www.swissinfo.ch
Could it be that China used Russia in the same way as NATO used Ukraine?
Russia is under sanctions, and will depend on China more. And China has some investments in Ukraine. I think Putin is quite afraid of Xi, especially when there is nearly nothing left at the eastern borders of Russia.
Pentaprism
Member
History may prove you correct.
But to date the vast majority of strikes have clearly been aimed at Military targets. Not withstanding some Residential Buildings have also been hit.
Until shown otherwise I'm inclined to believe they have been instructed to avoid Civilian infrastructure and Casualties. There is nothing to be gained by the contrary.