F-35 - International Participation

[jack412]

The Rafale guys have a genuine belief that the Rafale is better than the F-35. Reinforced by their media. It puts Murdoch's propaganda to shame, with how much tripe they are fed. Air and Cosmos leaked a story that the Rafale had won the Swiss comp. This hope was shattered. They see it as an anti-France conspiracy. Lead by the US, because the Rafale is the better aircraft.

So when they are met with push back. When they come to an English site to tell how great the Rafale is. They see it as, that we are in denial of the obvious Spectra Omnirole marvel.

 

[ngatimozart]

The Rafale guys have a genuine belief that the Rafale is better than the F-35. Reinforced by their media. It puts Murdoch's propaganda to shame, with how much tripe they are fed. Air and Cosmos leaked a story that the Rafale had won the Swiss comp. This hope was shattered. They see it as an anti-France conspiracy. Lead by the US, because the Rafale is the better aircraft.

So when they are met with push back. When they come to an English site to tell how great the Rafale is. They see it as, that we are in denial of the obvious Spectra Omnirole marvel.

Gotta love the Frogs. Not an arrogant bone in their gallic body

 

[Bonplan]

And isn’t this driving all the Rafale fanboys around the place, absolutely crazy?

The Swiss have assessed the F-35 as both more capable, cheaper to acquire and 20% or more, cheaper to sustain than any of the other bids...

Ce la vie, mon ami!

20% cheaper thanks to less flying hours. 20% cheaper despite all the other users saying the contrary.
It will be interesting to see a F35 swiss pilot intercepting a lost liner in a .... flying simulator !

 

[Arclighy]

20% cheaper thanks to less flying hours. 20% cheaper despite all the other users saying the contrary.
It will be interesting to see a F35 swiss pilot intercepting a lost liner in a .... flying simulator !

I'm interested to see your source for your claims. And very interested to read the comments of the "other users saying the contrary". Can you post them? Thanks.

 

[ngatimozart]

20% cheaper thanks to less flying hours. 20% cheaper despite all the other users saying the contrary.
It will be interesting to see a F35 swiss pilot intercepting a lost liner in a .... flying simulator !

Welcome to the forum. We require posters to support claims with links to reputable and reliable sources. I would strongly suggest that you read the rules.

With regards to the capabilities of the F-35, it appears that you are somewhat ill-informed and there are resources here for you to use. I would recommend you reading those. For your information, those who put those resources together know what they are talking about. Those of us who are Blue Tags are Defence Professionals and whilst the majority of us are not Subject Matter Experts on the F-35 and its systems, we are well read on it and there are some Defence Problems who know more than they are allowed to say. That is OPSEC - Operational Security and we take OPSEC very seriously.

 

[OPSSG]

20% cheaper thanks to less flying hours. 20% cheaper despite all the other users saying the contrary.
It will be interesting to see a F35 swiss pilot intercepting a lost liner in a .... flying simulator !

Let me share 3 points for your consideration:

One, QRF pilots fly actual aircraft to conduct air sovereignty patrols — not only to guide lost airliners but also to sanitise air threats from densely populated cities.

Two, I detect just a hint of sour grapes. Everyone uses simulators, including the Armée de l'Air et de l'Espace. The trick is developing a F-35A training syllabus that uses both synthetic and actual to qualify not only the 1st year pilots, but for these freshmen, to perform their mission under the guidance of a flight leader.

Q: Do you understand how modern multi-aircraft simulators are used to train fighter pilots?​

Three, procurement professionals of the respective air forces that select the F-35As and Bs, would do their own due diligence on claims on operating costs made and thereafter put these aircraft through their paces.

 

[ADMk2]

20% cheaper thanks to less flying hours. 20% cheaper despite all the other users saying the contrary.
It will be interesting to see a F35 swiss pilot intercepting a lost liner in a .... flying simulator !

It will be interesting to see a European fighter manufacturer actually be forced to compare apples with apples for a change…

Should that ever actually occur, of course…

 

[Bonplan]

I'm interested to see your source for your claims. And very interested to read the comments of the "other users saying the contrary". Can you post them? Thanks.

The US themselves, all month long.

From european buyer also :

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418918290370531339

 

[John Fedup]

It will be interesting to see a European fighter manufacturer actually be forced to compare apples with apples for a change…

Should that ever actually occur, of course…

It will also be interesting to see a comparison between Tempest and the Euro FCAS (again assuming both get built). Neither side will be able to use the “free from American dominance card” excuse.

 

[Bonplan]

Q: Do you understand how modern multi-aircraft simulators are used to train fighter pilots?

It's not a F35 specificity. Gripen, EF, SH18, Rafale use the same systems.

 

[Bonplan]

It will be interesting to see a European fighter manufacturer actually be forced to compare apples with apples for a change…

Remove the US umbrella purchase with every US jet and it will be far easier.

 

[Boagrius]

The US themselves, all month long.

Where?

From european buyer also :

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418918290370531339

So these are Dutch figures? How do they stack up against the other aircraft in the Swiss competition discussed originally?

Remove the US umbrella purchase with every US jet and it will be far easier.

How has the "US umbrella" influenced these purchases? Take the Swiss one for example?

 

[ngatimozart]

The US themselves, all month long.

From european buyer also :

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418918290370531339

That doesn't prove anything at all. Best you try for something better. If you want official acquisition fly away costs and CPFH (Cost Per Flight Hour) for the F-35 they are publicly available and can be found. Can the same be said for the Rafale variants? If so provide a link.

 

[OPSSG]

Can the same be said for the Rafale variants? If so provide a link.

A lost fanboy?

 

[ADMk2]

Remove the US umbrella purchase with every US jet and it will be far easier.

It would be easier to discuss if the European fighter manufacturers actually included ALL the costs of maintaining a fighter aircraft capability, as the US does, but hey, then people might start wondering why someone would choose to operate an earlier generation, inferior combat capability at a greater price?

 

[Bonplan]

Where?

You are pulling my leg.

Difficult F-35 engine sustainment contributing to higher than expected cost per flight hour

Difficulty sustaining the engine on the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) is contributing to a higher cost per flying hour than originally...

www.janes.com

Norway Spends Thousands of Working Hours Trying to Figure Out Total F-35 Cost

Program Leader Says High Costs Pose ‘Existential Threat’ to F-35

Program Leader Says High Costs Pose ‘Existential Threat’ to F-35

www.nationaldefensemagazine.org

HASC Dems Put DoD On Notice: No Free Pass For F-35 - Breaking Defense

“If this program continues to fail ... we may need to invest in other more affordable programs, and backfill an operational shortfall of potentially over 800 tactical fighters,” said Rep. Donald Norcross, chair of the HASC tactical air and land forces subcommittee.

breakingdefense.com

etc....

 

[Bonplan]

How has the "US umbrella" influenced these purchases? Take the Swiss one for example?

Israel, Japan, S Korea, NL, Belgium, Denmark, Australia : all purchased a part of the US umbrella in case of.

 

[Boagrius]

You are pulling my leg.

Difficult F-35 engine sustainment contributing to higher than expected cost per flight hour

Difficulty sustaining the engine on the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) is contributing to a higher cost per flying hour than originally...

www.janes.com

Norway Spends Thousands of Working Hours Trying to Figure Out Total F-35 Cost

Program Leader Says High Costs Pose ‘Existential Threat’ to F-35

Program Leader Says High Costs Pose ‘Existential Threat’ to F-35

www.nationaldefensemagazine.org

HASC Dems Put DoD On Notice: No Free Pass For F-35 - Breaking Defense

“If this program continues to fail ... we may need to invest in other more affordable programs, and backfill an operational shortfall of potentially over 800 tactical fighters,” said Rep. Donald Norcross, chair of the HASC tactical air and land forces subcommittee.

breakingdefense.com

etc....

Meaningless without an apples-to-apples comparison of the figures of the F35 vs the other contenders in the Swiss competition.

Israel, Japan, S Korea, NL, Belgium, Denmark, Australia : all purchased a part of the US umbrella (as part of F35 acquisition?)* in case of.

Evidence for this? You seem to be spouting nonsense at this point.

*Bolded part mine

 

[ngatimozart]

Israel, Japan, S Korea, NL, Belgium, Denmark, Australia : all purchased a part of the US umbrella in case of.

In case of what?

You are pulling my leg.

Difficult F-35 engine sustainment contributing to higher than expected cost per flight hour

Difficulty sustaining the engine on the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) is contributing to a higher cost per flying hour than originally...

www.janes.com

Norway Spends Thousands of Working Hours Trying to Figure Out Total F-35 Cost

Program Leader Says High Costs Pose ‘Existential Threat’ to F-35

Program Leader Says High Costs Pose ‘Existential Threat’ to F-35

www.nationaldefensemagazine.org

HASC Dems Put DoD On Notice: No Free Pass For F-35 - Breaking Defense

“If this program continues to fail ... we may need to invest in other more affordable programs, and backfill an operational shortfall of potentially over 800 tactical fighters,” said Rep. Donald Norcross, chair of the HASC tactical air and land forces subcommittee.

breakingdefense.com

etc....

Cherry picking sources to support somewhat spurious claims is unacceptable.

The Moderators have noted your nationalistic posts both here and elsewhere on the Internet and nationalistic posts are not allowed.

You had better up the quality of your posts or your time on here will be very short indeed.

 

[Bonplan]

In case of what?

In case of war, or international crisis.
It's obviously the case of SKorea, Israel, Denmark, Australia. At least.