Nope but I'd love to see some. ADF PR has been very slack in making any imagery available on any of the builds.
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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Todjaeger
Potstirrer
There are a bunch of things to unpack from this, but a key concept to really understand is that much, perhaps even most of the modern, high-tech warfare is going to be a systems or evens systems of systems level event.
One of the impacts of that is that if the security situation has degraded to such a degree that there is a reasonable likelihood that a warship would be targeted and get modern LO AShM fired at it, then that warship should not and most likely would not be deployed by itself, unless it was absolutely necessary. In many respects this is sort of like how it is with modern air combat vs. how people often look at it as a one-on-one fighter between two opposing fighters.
In the case of a targeted AShM launch, who/what/where is the launching platform? What comm relays or data links were used to get the targeting data (if any was needed) to the launch platform? What or where was the command asset giving the order to engage? What was the sensing platform or asset which detected the ship so that it could be targeted?
The only real situation where I could see a lone warship getting suddenly targeted was if a conflict suddenly broke out with naval vessels on or transiting to or from foreign deployments.
Yes but this can be in a form that is extremely difficult to detect, for example AESA radar which is stealthy in its self and why it is fitted to stealth aircraft and becoming the preferred option on a significant number of combat aircraft and using the ships own transmissions or infrared.
You are avoiding answering the questions raised in my post and drifting around the central issue that was the start of the discussion. It was originally proposed that it was relatively easy to defend against anti ship missiles which I believe it is not. I still think that the lessons of WW2 still apply and that is that is that a naval vessel or fleet should only enter an area that is covered by enemy air operations if they have strong air support. The lack of air support in this type of operation is a recipe for disaster, With modern stealth aircraft, stealth missiles and stealthy coms (directly focused) and radars (AESA) the defence against a significant attack is difficult.
Externally Arafura looks little different to the last lot of photos released. The superstructure is basically complete in outline but the mast and the funnel are yet to be stepped.
I may have missed it but did not see anybody claim on the previous page that it is “relatively easy to defend against anti ship missiles.”
No Navy with any sense is going to send its ships entirely unsupported into a high threat area if a conflict is likely. The only nations that will operate stealth technology in the next ten years are all fairly advanced, wealthy, and capable nations. Going to war against any of them without a substantial joint service effort would just be silly - if that’s your primary point then you’re not likely to find people disagreeing with it.
Interesting stuff but, it would still only be useful within a very limited range noting the visual horizon would be very low. For an underwater look and navigation within range of land where reference marks can be identified. For the longer range work (which is mostly what the periscope is used for) it would not do much as far as I can tell as you will simply not see the upper works of a ship.
The fact it requires sunlight as a reference point to moderate some of the distortion is likely to be a limiting factor as well.
Yep, pretty much covers it, It seemed to start from post 28878 and my post 28880. It was not so much quoted but rather inferred that there were less problems with defence against missiles than I thought was realistic.
I do think that the most likely conflict scenario, but not exclusively, would likely involve China and I would not be surprised if they are not far away from feilding a hole array of stealth technology.
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Boagrius
Well-Known Member
I think the PRC are already trying a similar concept with their Divine Eagle UAS, although I think it is land based and directed more at detecting other aircraft.
The USMC also had the MUX concept in the pipeline but I'm not sure what that's up to lately. I don't think it is likely to be a ship launched HALE systems due to space constraints.
The USMC also had the MUX concept in the pipeline but I'm not sure what that's up to lately. I don't think it is likely to be a ship launched HALE systems due to space constraints.
Always better to shoot the archer rather than the arrows.
I would like to think we would only enter an area of operations where we dominate the Air space..
Trust we have that luxury going forward.
Regards S
Flexson
Active Member
And the First Armidale is looking at decommissioning in April this year (I believe it will be Pirie), Supply has had to juggle its commissioning to deconflict.
This has been a persistent gripe of mine. Navy and DoD PR have been dreadful from the DDG build onwards. There are a lot of folk who would like to follow the construction of these vessels or get updates but the paucity of information is staggering. We go more updates out of Navantia for the AOR builds.
I have resolved that there is no point railing about it as we do not seem to be making any headway.
Takao
The Bunker Group
The entire DoD has been increasingly poor at strategic comms / public relations over the past 3 - 5 years. Pick a topic and we have either been absent or on the back foot. It's beyond frustrating.....
I agree. I wonder if it's just bad PR process or a deliberate decision to be less transparent.
Gryphinator
Active Member
Could be deliberate although I don't think OPSEC is an issue when it comes to external pics/updates of known projects. Possibly a manning issue.
As I've read here over the years were pretty bad at capitalising on good news in acquisition.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
I’m sure we would all like more reporting of Naval Defence projects, all Defence projects, but....
Let’s be realistic, even if Defence produced photos and updates every day of the week, it would need the general media and defence media to report it.
Whilst all of us here on DT would love it if a camera feed was set up to watch the progress on Arafura for example, the average punter in the real world doesn’t give a $hit, not because they don’t give a $hit, they’re just not particularly interested in Defence or educated in Defence matters.
Info is out there, if you look for it, that’s why I look, on a daily basis, at a list of defence media websites, DoD site and the Def Min site.
If it won’t come to you, you have to go to it!
For example on the Def Min site today is some news on NUSHIP Supply:
www.minister.defence.gov.au
If you’re not happy with the level of reporting start sending the Def Min emails, complain, make a noise.
In the past I’ve emailed previous Def Mins and have received replies, not necessarily what I wanted to know, but still a reply, they are public servants that we pay for after all.
Cheers,
Let’s be realistic, even if Defence produced photos and updates every day of the week, it would need the general media and defence media to report it.
Whilst all of us here on DT would love it if a camera feed was set up to watch the progress on Arafura for example, the average punter in the real world doesn’t give a $hit, not because they don’t give a $hit, they’re just not particularly interested in Defence or educated in Defence matters.
Info is out there, if you look for it, that’s why I look, on a daily basis, at a list of defence media websites, DoD site and the Def Min site.
If it won’t come to you, you have to go to it!
For example on the Def Min site today is some news on NUSHIP Supply:
NUSHIP Supply ship acceptance | Defence Ministers
Defence’s contract with Spain’s Navantia S.A. has reached a major milestone with Ship Acceptance of the Royal Australian Navy’s First Supply-class vessel, NUSHIP Supply.Minister for Defence, Senator the Hon Linda Reynolds CSC was pleased to announce the formal acceptance of the Auxiliary Oilier...
If you’re not happy with the level of reporting start sending the Def Min emails, complain, make a noise.
In the past I’ve emailed previous Def Mins and have received replies, not necessarily what I wanted to know, but still a reply, they are public servants that we pay for after all.
Cheers,
I would try contacting CN before the minister, generally all you'll get from any minister is a form reply written by staff. Lots of social media options to get comments to CN and he's got people monitoring those channels.
I don't really understand why there's been such a shortage of imagery (not press releases) for current builds, definitely not an OPSEC issue. Maybe South Australia has a shortage of IS sailors to take the photos ? Who knows, but even if most people don't give a shit, it's still important to visually document each ship build for historical record at a minimum.
I don't really understand why there's been such a shortage of imagery (not press releases) for current builds, definitely not an OPSEC issue. Maybe South Australia has a shortage of IS sailors to take the photos ? Who knows, but even if most people don't give a shit, it's still important to visually document each ship build for historical record at a minimum.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
The great thing about writing and sending an email is that you can address it to one person, the Def Min for example, and you can also CC it to a cast of thousands.
Write your letter, get your address list sorted, send and repeat as often as necessary.
Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease!
Cheers,
Write your letter, get your address list sorted, send and repeat as often as necessary.
Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease!
Cheers,
All builds at Osborne are documented. But a constant feed or some such would make watching grass growing look interesting. Her current appearance is effectively as shown on the navy.gov.au Arafura page with the three personnel standing in front of her; and that was taken three or four months ago. Until the funnel and mast are stepped her external appearance will remain largely unchanged; and, to be frank, not very interesting.
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