Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[Redlands18]

A couple of rockets blasted out of the cockpit. I wonder how much damage that did. There seemed to be quite a bit of scorching outside the canopy and it looked like some smoke coming out of it as well. Perhaps it is salvageable but whether it is worth repairing could depend on the longer term plans for the fleet.

Originally it was 24 Aircraft for 2 Squadrons, then they split the Squadrons and ordered the 12. Growlers, so a total of 36 Aircraft, right now they are down to 34 Aircraft, is that enough to cover the FGA Role, the Growler Role as well as Trg and Maintenance requirements?

 

[spoz]

Hmm, if they were well below V1 as it appears they might have been I wonder why they didn't just abort and bring the aircraft to a halt. Looks like they had time to close the throttle - unsure if it would close itself if not locked off or in hand, and it would be in hand during TO. Never seen the NATOPS for the aircraft either, so maybe there is a requirement to eject if there is any engine issue on take off. From a carrier that would always be true, but ashore not so sure.

 

[John Newman]

Originally it was 24 Aircraft for 2 Squadrons, then they split the Squadrons and ordered the 12. Growlers, so a total of 36 Aircraft, right now they are down to 34 Aircraft, is that enough to cover the FGA Role, the Growler Role as well as Trg and Maintenance requirements?

I don’t think being down one airframe of each type being the end of the world.

Let’s not forget that there doesn’t appear to be any effort in place to replace the crispy fried Growler.

 

[John Newman]

Another chapter in the Classic Hornet fleet came to an official end today with 77 Sqn parking it’s aircraft in preparation for transition to the F-35A starting early next year, it also brings to an end Classic operations at RAAF Williamtown too:

RAAF Williamtown farewells its classic Hornets | ADBR

Number 77 Squadron – the second last RAAF McDonnell Douglas F/A-18A/B ‘classic’ Hornet operating unit, and the last Hornet unit based at Williamtown near Newcastle – has completed flying operations…

adbr.com.au

Tindal based 75 Sqn is now the last remaining operational Classic squadron.

One more interesting thing, as at ‘today’ the RAAF has only ‘one operational’ active fighter squadron, No 75.

Both 1 Sqn and 6 Sqn are temporarily grounded, 77 Sqn officially parked its aircraft, 3 Sqn has not reached IOC as yet and 2 OCU is a training squadron.

In reality, if push came to shove, the RAAF doesn’t have a shortage of airframes to call on in an emergency, but it’s probably not the end to the year the RAAF fast jet community would have wanted.

Cheers,

 

[John Newman]

Hmm, if they were well below V1 as it appears they might have been I wonder why they didn't just abort and bring the aircraft to a halt. Looks like they had time to close the throttle - unsure if it would close itself if not locked off or in hand, and it would be in hand during TO. Never seen the NATOPS for the aircraft either, so maybe there is a requirement to eject if there is any engine issue on take off. From a carrier that would always be true, but ashore not so sure.

I do wonder if due to the accident in the US that led to the loss of the crispy fried Growler, if the RAAF powers that be have instructed aircrews to punch out in ‘similar’ circumstances.

Whilst the aircrew wouldn’t have been able to see what was happening behind them, there may well have been big red fire warning lights flashing in front of their eyes?

Only speculation on my behalf of course and no doubt the answers will be found during the investigation, but maybe it’s a case of better safe than sorry.

 

[south]

I do wonder if due to the accident in the US that led to the loss of the crispy fried Growler, if the RAAF powers that be have instructed aircrews to punch out in ‘similar’ circumstances.

Very unlikely. For one the Growler crew got out fine - so what would drive a change to the procedure?

Whilst the aircrew wouldn’t have been able to see what was happening behind them, there may well have been big red fire warning lights flashing in front of their eyes?

The hornet family has exceptional rearward visibility as well as mirrors mounted on the canopy. Aircrew are routinely placed in situations to exercise abort decision making and execution during emergency sims, so whilst there would have been a real time ‘shock’ they are generally well prepared.

Only speculation on my behalf of course and no doubt the answers will be found during the investigation, but maybe it’s a case of better safe than sorry.

There are too many people who have died by leaving an ejection decision late. I’m sure this incident will be extensively looked into by the RAAF safety team.

 

[Redlands18]

I do wonder if due to the accident in the US that led to the loss of the crispy fried Growler, if the RAAF powers that be have instructed aircrews to punch out in ‘similar’ circumstances.

Whilst the aircrew wouldn’t have been able to see what was happening behind them, there may well have been big red fire warning lights flashing in front of their eyes?

Only speculation on my behalf of course and no doubt the answers will be found during the investigation, but maybe it’s a case of better safe than sorry.

Probably the happiest people with this incident will be the Boffins at Boeing and Martin-Baker who will get a very rare opportunity to examine the Cockpit of Combat Aircraft post Ejection. That is not 1/ a blackened Smear on a Hillside 2/ providing a brand new Fish Habitat or 3/ burnt out wreckage on a Runway and has suffered no further damage post ejection.

 

[StingrayOZ]

I could imagine you would have to replace all the interior instruments and what not, landing gear.. Obviously two ejection seats. IMO I would be surprised if its a write off. It may still need a million bucks of work done to it, but in terms of damage, it looks pretty light. What does an ejection seat cost these days, I heard it was hundreds of thousands. Then there was what ever the engine fault was, may require new engines, but again, even if there was no ejection, that would have been required.

The damage seems light particularly compared to the other growler.

RAAF Growler catches fire after Nellis takeoff incident | ADBR

UPDATED 29/01/18 with new photos: An apparent engine failure has seen an RAAF EA-18G Growler catch fire after an aborted takeoff from Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada on Saturday morning…

adbr.com.au

Much more damage, much more serious, large fire extensively damaging the plane, that was always going to be a big job. Could always be worse.
Given how extensive that fire was, ejecting would seem like a completely prudent option.

 

[Redlands18]

I could imagine you would have to replace all the interior instruments and what not, landing gear.. Obviously two ejection seats. IMO I would be surprised if its a write off. It may still need a million bucks of work done to it, but in terms of damage, it looks pretty light. What does an ejection seat cost these days, I heard it was hundreds of thousands. Then there was what ever the engine fault was, may require new engines, but again, even if there was no ejection, that would have been required.

The damage seems light particularly compared to the other growler.

View attachment 47857

RAAF Growler catches fire after Nellis takeoff incident | ADBR

UPDATED 29/01/18 with new photos: An apparent engine failure has seen an RAAF EA-18G Growler catch fire after an aborted takeoff from Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada on Saturday morning…

adbr.com.au

Much more damage, much more serious, large fire extensively damaging the plane, that was always going to be a big job. Could always be worse.
Given how extensive that fire was, ejecting would seem like a completely prudent option.

Yes I don’t think anyone thought that the Growler was ever going to be rebuilt. How often has an Aircraft that has seen a ejection happen then been returned to service? suspect its in Hens Teeth territory. What the pictures don’t show of course is how much damage was caused to the Cockpit during the ejection. I suspect there is going to be a huge amount of time and effort put into examining the Cockpit of the Super Hornet, its to good an opportunity to miss.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Yes I don’t think anyone thought that the Growler was ever going to be rebuilt.

Well they did look at "economic recovery"

RAAF warplane's engine 'destroyed itself', causing $120 million fire

Senior military figures describe the "most serious incident of its kind for the Australian Air Force in more than 25 years", praising two pilots for their expert response to a dramatic engine malfunction that saw their advanced warplane skid across a US runway before catching fire.

www.abc.net.au

I don't know if there was much to recover off that plane.. Perhaps the interior cockpit?
This one seems otherwise in pretty good shape as there was no large fire that burned underneath it.

Its not unheard of for air forces to canabalise completely airworthy frames for spares. They might even be able to convert one of the "wired up" SH to growler capability.

The outside markings for the ejection seats give an idea of what the cockpit probably looks like. Probably looks like burnt toast.

 

[Redlands18]

Yes I don’t think anyone thought that the Growler was ever going to be rebuilt. How often has an Aircraft that has seen a ejection happen then been returned to service? suspect its in Hens Teeth territory. What the pictures don’t show of course is how much damage was caused to the Cockpit during the ejection. I suspect there is going to be a huge amount of time and effort put into examining the Cockpit of the Super Hornet, its to good an opportunity to miss.

Just to ensure there is no confusion here except for the first sentence, my post is in reference to the Super Hornet from the other day and how rare it would be for an Aircraft to end up still largely intact post Crew ejection. If it can’t be repaired Boeing may even request its return for study.

 

[John Newman]

It would appear, from what I read this morning, that LM will fall short on F-35 deliveries this year (due to Covid):

AFA 2020: Lockheed Martin projects fewer F-35 deliveries in 2020 due to Covid-19

Lockheed Martin is lowering delivery expectations in 2020 for the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) to roughly 121 from 141 due to Covid-19 impacting...

www.google.com.au

Originally 141 were planned for Lot 12, but will fall short by 20 aircraft with 121 produced. What I’m particularly interested in is how this might affect the RAAF?

The RAAF was due 15 aircraft from Lot 12 to bring the fleet to 33 by years end, last I heard reported was 30 delivered.

Until any further details are published we won’t know one way or the other if RAAF deliveries are on track or not.

Potentially falling short by up to three airframes is not the end of the world, but the RAAF is also due 15 next year and the following year too.

Will the delays snowball?

 

[spoz]

Yes I don’t think anyone thought that the Growler was ever going to be rebuilt. How often has an Aircraft that has seen a ejection happen then been returned to service? suspect its in Hens Teeth territory.

Every few years, somewhere around the world their is an accidental ejection, frequently (well, in this realm) during in aircraft maintenance with the aircraft stationary but sometimes through inadvertent activation while airborne. Those aircraft are usually able to be returned to service:

Rafale Ride Leads To Inadvertent Ejection By Overstressed Passenger | Aviation Week Network

A ride in a French Air Force Rafale B didn’t go as planned when an overstressed, back-seat passenger inadvertently ejected from the two-seat fighter, and the aircraft was saved only because of a previously undetected flaw that prevented the pilot’s ejection, a new French military report said.

aviationweek.com

 

[oldsig127]

Originally 141 were planned for Lot 12, but will fall short by 20 aircraft with 121 produced. What I’m particularly interested in is how this might affect the RAAF?

The RAAF was due 15 aircraft from Lot 12 to bring the fleet to 33 by years end, last I heard reported was 30 delivered.

Until any further details are published we won’t know one way or the other if RAAF deliveries are on track or not.

Potentially falling short by up to three airframes is not the end of the world, but the RAAF is also due 15 next year and the following year too.

Will the delays snowball?

Aircraft up to A35-30 are already in Australia. A35-31 and A35-33 have been photographed flying from DFW in late November by spotters. Presumably 32 is also complete.

I doubt there's any delay, but let's always Ssume the worst.

oldsig

 

[John Newman]

Aircraft up to A35-30 are already in Australia. A35-31 and A35-33 have been photographed flying from DFW in late November by spotters. Presumably 32 is also complete.

I doubt there's any delay, but let's always Ssume the worst.

oldsig

Thanks mate! I’d been looking at ADF Serials, but it hasn’t been updated for a while. Where did you get your info?

I know there is always a period of time between being test flown and official delivery so I was more interested in if the last three had actually rolled off the LM production line or not, appears they have.

You’d also have to assume that the next batch of 15 aircraft were well into production too.

Despite everything, the RAAF transition to F-35A appears to be rolling along smoothly.

Cheers,

 

[oldsig127]

Thanks mate! I’d been looking at ADF Serials, but it hasn’t been updated for a while. Where did you get your info?

I know there is always a period of time between being test flown and official delivery so I was more interested in if the last three had actually rolled off the LM production line or not, appears they have.

You’d also have to assume that the next batch of 15 aircraft were well into production too.

Despite everything, the RAAF transition to F-35A appears to be rolling along smoothly.

Cheers,

Link below to a facebook page where photos of all three had been posted by 14 November. I also recall a post which I can't lay hands on which said they'd be home for Christmas, though I can't find any reports of their arrival.

Frankly, as it's all running exactly according to the schedule first posted here in 2018 (or earlier?) and the novelty having worn off, you'll be bloody lucky to see them reported in the media from now on unless some sort of outrage can be confected.

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oldsig

 

[John Newman]

Frankly, as it's all running exactly according to the schedule first posted here in 2018 (or earlier?) and the novelty having worn off, you'll be bloody lucky to see them reported in the media from now on unless some sort of outrage can be confected.

Yes reporting has certainly become rather ‘ho hum’ by the media, even the defence media too.

I do hope that regular updates are sent to the goon squad at APA, do the still exist? Ha ha!

Cheers,

 

[John Newman]

Bit of Loyal Wingman news:

Accueil - Defense aerospace

Find all the news concerning defense and aerospace.

www.defense-aerospace.com

The aircraft has completed high speed taxi tests, but it appears that it failed to achieve the planned first flight this year. First flight is now scheduled for early next year.

Regardless of not achieving first flight this year, it would still appear that strong progress has been made in the relatively short life of this program.

Cheers,

 

[John Newman]

Regardless of not achieving first flight this year, it would still appear that strong progress has been made in the relatively short life of this program.

Just read this ADBR article on Loyal Wingman:

Boeing ATS Loyal Wingman conducts high-speed taxi ahead of first flight | ADBR

The Boeing Airpower Teaming System (ATS) unmanned combat air vehicle being developed for the RAAF’s Loyal Wingman program has conducted a series of high-speed taxi tests ahead of its anticipated…

adbr.com.au

It would appear the reason for the failed 2020 first flight was due to poor weather and unfavourable wind conditions in recent weeks.

Hopefully that is the reason rather than technical issues.

Cheers,

 

[Severely]

I have been wondering over the last few days regarding the incident with our Hornet and the recent ejection as to whether there are any salvageable parts form the Growler we lost. ADF serials shows the fuselage cocooned with what appears to be an intact canopy and I assume dual seat cockpit. Could there not be any salvageable parts that would expedite the return to service of the Rhino currently without seats and canopy should all else be intact?

ADF-Serials Image Gallery :: EA-18G A46-311 :: Growler_A46_311_at_AMARG_February_2019_Photo_via_Bob_Maddern

www.adf-gallery.com.au