Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

oldsig127

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I find the ”jobs” issue an interesting one. Somehow there will be fewer jobs, because we’re buying a larger fleet of a more complicated and advanced helicopter, if the rumours are correct?

This larger fleet won’t have sustainment and update requirements, just like the current one has?

22 airframes were worth local assembly, but 29 aren’t?

It’s a curious argument...
Yes, it's a bit odd, but I wouldn't bet that the same people will get them, so they at least would be jobless. I'm also not reading between the lines of a rumour to determine the new airframes will be built/assembled in Australia, especially if there's a rush and long disapproving memories of building in Brisbane

oldsig
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
It was my understanding that the P-8A Poseidon already has the ability to command and control the MQ-4C Triton (UAV) so it would not be a huge leap to connect the Loyal Wingman. I'm guessing the Loyal Wingman would not have the same range as the MQ-4C, but I'm willing to bet that it could carry more of a load IE: Northrop Grumman’s recently-unveiled Very Lightweight Air launched Torpedo. LINK to flightglobal
You are talking integration problems and that is highly expensive. It's all software. Just look at the RAN SH-2G(A) Seasprite fiasco, with the RAN demanding capabilities that weren't possible at the time. And before all the Aussie posters get all bolshie, that was the actual cause, not the contractors inability as claimed by the Aussie govt. They had to blame anyone but themselves for a $1.7 billion balls up.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Yes, it's a bit odd, but I wouldn't bet that the same people will get them, so they at least would be jobless. I'm also not reading between the lines of a rumour to determine the new airframes will be built/assembled in Australia, especially if there's a rush and long disapproving memories of building in Brisbane

oldsig
How many qualified helicopter maintainers, etc are there in Australia? I would imagine it’s a relatively small pool and such would be relatively employable across the industry.
 

Takao

The Bunker Group
How many qualified helicopter maintainers, etc are there in Australia? I would imagine it’s a relatively small pool and such would be relatively employable across the industry.
New companies simply just means a shirt change for Monday. I know blokes who have worked for 3 - 4 different companies now; haven't really changed location....
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
New companies simply just means a shirt change for Monday. I know blokes who have worked for 3 - 4 different companies now; haven't really changed location....
Tell me about it, every time a prime contractor changed in certain sectors I started getting cold calls from recruiters. Most stuff seems to stay in the same place but some shuffles around, usually towards the state with the most political sway at the time, (most votes to be bought) pretty much WA and QLD at the moment.

I keep running into the same people as well, over and over again, contract after contract, lots of ex uniform people, especially technical, in the game too.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
New companies simply just means a shirt change for Monday. I know blokes who have worked for 3 - 4 different companies now; haven't really changed location....
Sounds like my sister's career. Civil engineer, mostly working on contracts for local government. I recall her telling me once (laughing as she did so) when I asked where her new job was based that she had the same desk as for her two previous employers.
 

hairyman

Active Member
It seems to me that we never get to build American stuff here in Australia. The last I can remember is the Avon Sabre, which from memory were assembled here. Since then we have done the Mirage, again not American, and nothing else other than the Nomad, until the Eurocopters. America does not appear to be favourable to others building their aircraft.
 

Julian 82

Active Member
It seems to me that we never get to build American stuff here in Australia. The last I can remember is the Avon Sabre, which from memory were assembled here. Since then we have done the Mirage, again not American, and nothing else other than the Nomad, until the Eurocopters. America does not appear to be favourable to others building their aircraft.
You are forgetting the F/A-18 Hornet. That was assembled at Avalon in the 80s and early 90s.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
It seems to me that we never get to build American stuff here in Australia. The last I can remember is the Avon Sabre, which from memory were assembled here. Since then we have done the Mirage, again not American, and nothing else other than the Nomad, until the Eurocopters. America does not appear to be favourable to others building their aircraft.
F-16 has been assembled in the Netherlands, Belgium, Turkey & S. Korea, F-15 in Japan, F-4 in Japan & the UK, & there's an F-35 final assembly line in Italy, as well as parts being made for US aircraft in multiple countries, e.g. Denmark & Norway. F-104 was built all over the place, with assembly lines in Canada, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Italy & Japan.

Some of the non-US production lines have assembled aircraft for third countries.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
It seems to me that we never get to build American stuff here in Australia. The last I can remember is the Avon Sabre, which from memory were assembled here. Since then we have done the Mirage, again not American, and nothing else other than the Nomad, until the Eurocopters. America does not appear to be favourable to others building their aircraft.
I believe Boeing will build the Loyal Wingman in Australia?
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
I believe Boeing will build the Loyal Wingman in Australia?
The first of 3 Aircraft is actually completed and currently undergoing ground testing but the project is only a Technology Demonstrator at this stage. The funding for the procurement of Teaming Air Vehicles for the RAAF will not kick in until about 2026, we are a very long way from the RAAF ordering them into series production.
 

pkcasimir

Member
It seems to me that we never get to build American stuff here in Australia. The last I can remember is the Avon Sabre, which from memory were assembled here. Since then we have done the Mirage, again not American, and nothing else other than the Nomad, until the Eurocopters. America does not appear to be favourable to others building their aircraft.
Australian companies involved in production of the F-35 including F-35s for the RAAF.
 

hairyman

Active Member
I was unaware that the Hornets were assembled here. And the Loyal Wingman is not wholly Hoing product. It is a joint effort with a Queensland University as far as I know.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
It seems to me that we never get to build American stuff here in Australia. The last I can remember is the Avon Sabre, which from memory were assembled here. Since then we have done the Mirage, again not American, and nothing else other than the Nomad, until the Eurocopters. America does not appear to be favourable to others building their aircraft.
From recollection, Sikorsky offered local build for UH-60M and a re-manufacturing program for the S-70A9 Blackhawks to allow us to sell that capability on the open market.

However we chose the Eurocopter path.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
At my age it is more forgetting something new every day, not learning.
As long as you don't forget where the beer, rum, tucker and dunny are you're pretty well sorted. It also helps to call the old shelia by her right name if one wants to survive another sunrise.
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The Loyal Wingman program seems to be progressing very nicely indeed, another mark set with the prototype completing a taxi under its own power and one step closer to its first flight.

In what is becoming a very networked force and system of systems, I think we are underestimating this one as a force multiplier and the potential real benefits it can bring, watching this one closely

Cheers

 

Boagrius

Well-Known Member
Among other things, I'm very interested to see how LW integrates with F35 as a counter to 5th gen opponents. With F35s as the hunters and LW as the hounds (distributed, forward ISR screen), you might be able to guard against unpleasant surprises where opposing VLO aircraft "bump" into each other well inside missile WEZ, leading to less than acceptable exchange rates. Add munitions to the LW and things get even more interesting...

In a time where good news stories have been few and far between for Boeing, I am glad to see this showing such promise.
 
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