The Party won't be to impressed so I think some people will lose more than their jobs.
PRC Peoples Liberation Army Navy
- Thread starter Wall83
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John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Yep, probably in line for vaccine testing.
Boagrius
Well-Known Member
The PLAN’s Renhai-Class Cruiser and the Future of Anti-Access and Area Denial
China’s next-generation cruiser will change the nature of military competition in Asia’s disputed waters.
thediplomat.com
Seems corruption is quite severe in the CCP Navy.
"
The Invisible Threat to China’s Navy: Corruption
The arrest of CSIC’s chairman speaks to endemic corruption among China’s military shipbuilders. That spells trouble for the PLAN."
"
The Invisible Threat to China’s Navy: Corruption
The arrest of CSIC’s chairman speaks to endemic corruption among China’s military shipbuilders. That spells trouble for the PLAN."
The Invisible Threat to China’s Navy: Corruption
The arrest of CSIC’s chairman speaks to endemic corruption among China’s military shipbuilders. That spells trouble for the PLAN.
thediplomat.com
I would read that article with a healthy dose of scepticism because Xi Jinping uses corruption as the reason to purge political rivals and cleanse the party of his enemies. Undoubtedly corruption does exist within China and is a part of the national pysche having been present since the founding of the first dynasty.
However when reading anything that concerns the CCP, it must be remembered all is not as what it seems and it's a highly secretive organization. This is a very good description of the CCP by a Catholic priest who was a foremost expert on Maoist China.
"The Communist party is in essence a secret society. In its methods and mentality it presents a striking resemblance to an underworld mob.1 It fears daylight, feeds on deception and conspiracy, and rules by intimidation and terror. “Communist legality” is a contradiction in terms, since the Party is above the law—for example, Party members are immune from legal prosecution; they must be divested of their Party membership before they can be indicted by a criminal court (that a judge may acquit an accused person is inconceivable: since the accused was sent to court, it means that he is guilty). Whereas even Mussolini and Hitler orginally reached power through elections, no Communist party ever received an electorate’s mandate to govern."
The Art of Interpreting Nonexistent Inscriptions Written in Invisible Ink on a Blank Page
1.In any debate, you really know that you have won when you find your opponents beginning to appropriate your ideas, in the sincere belief that they themselves just invented them. This situation can afford a subtle satisfaction; I think the feeling must be quite familiar to Father Ladany, the...
www.chinafile.com
All that has changed from when Father Ladany wrote that and now, is that the actors have changed, China is much stronger economically, militarily and diplomatically and that more China watchers can actually speak the language, some even fluently. Therefore I would take anything that concerns the CCP especially, and China in general, that uses official Chinese sources with some scepticism, especially if it favours the CCP or China in any way, or attempts to spin the story to disadvantage their opponents.
Regarding the crux of the story, if the premise is true, xi Jinpinghas changed how he does things and that would be unusual for him because it would create political problems and shipbuilding problems. He can't afford to show a weak hand. Xi Jinping's normal modus operandi is to replace disgraced people with his own people, so he will have one of his own people already in the position who is technically capable (Xi is a technocrat), ideologically pure to Maoist Leninist Marxism and Xi Jinping thought, and personally loyal to Xi. Contrary to the story, it shouldn't markedly impact upon the naval shipbuilding plan. If anything it may hasten it because it will show the workforce that the Supreme Leader's eye is on it and any faltering or failure is not an option.
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
Technical review Type 55 stealth guided missile destroyer Nanchang of Chinese Navy
Technical review by Navy Recognition editorial team about the new Chinese Navy Type 055 stealth guided missile destroyer Nanchang
Quite informative technical description for Type 55. It's in my opinion doing similar Job Specs of Tico. For that matter it's a cruiser.
I would read that article with a healthy dose of scepticism because Xi Jinping uses corruption as the reason to purge political rivals and cleanse the party of his enemies. Undoubtedly corruption does exist within China and is a part of the national pysche having been present since the founding of the first dynasty.
However when reading anything that concerns the CCP, it must be remembered all is not as what it seems and it's a highly secretive organization. This is a very good description of the CCP by a Catholic priest who was a foremost expert on Maoist China.
"The Communist party is in essence a secret society. In its methods and mentality it presents a striking resemblance to an underworld mob.1 It fears daylight, feeds on deception and conspiracy, and rules by intimidation and terror. “Communist legality” is a contradiction in terms, since the Party is above the law—for example, Party members are immune from legal prosecution; they must be divested of their Party membership before they can be indicted by a criminal court (that a judge may acquit an accused person is inconceivable: since the accused was sent to court, it means that he is guilty). Whereas even Mussolini and Hitler orginally reached power through elections, no Communist party ever received an electorate’s mandate to govern."
The Art of Interpreting Nonexistent Inscriptions Written in Invisible Ink on a Blank Page
1.In any debate, you really know that you have won when you find your opponents beginning to appropriate your ideas, in the sincere belief that they themselves just invented them. This situation can afford a subtle satisfaction; I think the feeling must be quite familiar to Father Ladany, the...
All that has changed from when Father Ladany wrote that and now, is that the actors have changed, China is much stronger economically, militarily and diplomatically and that more China watchers can actually speak the language, some even fluently. Therefore I would take anything that concerns the CCP especially, and China in general, that uses official Chinese sources with some scepticism, especially if it favours the CCP or China in any way, or attempts to spin the story to disadvantage their opponents.
Regarding the crux of the story, if the premise is true, xi Jinpinghas changed how he does things and that would be unusual for him because it would create political problems and shipbuilding problems. He can't afford to show a weak hand. Xi Jinping's normal modus operandi is to replace disgraced people with his own people, so he will have one of his own people already in the position who is technically capable (Xi is a technocrat), ideologically pure to Maoist Leninist Marxism and Xi Jinping thought, and personally loyal to Xi. Contrary to the story, it shouldn't markedly impact upon the naval shipbuilding plan. If anything it may hasten it because it will show the workforce that the Supreme Leader's eye is on it and any faltering or failure is not an option.
Not so sure about The Invisible Threat to China’s Navy: Corruption .
Noticed the PLAN launched their second Type LHD last month with yet another to follow within a few years to launch around the same time as her third Aircraft carrier.
Backing up the above, the PLAN are producing an impressive array of ships across all fields of naval power and one has to be impressed with what they have achieved within a couple of decades...................lots of ships with seemingly modern kit !!!!
If ship construction slows down than maybe there is something in the question.
I think not.
The question I have is,
when do we call the PLAN a blue water navy?
Regards S
PS - The above is both impressive and concerning.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Certainly the PLAN Is in the process of acquiring an impressive fleet of new ships. Western navies have, to varing degrees, extensive knowledge on how to utilize their fleets along with vast experience in training crews, especially the USN wrt carrier operations. Effective blue water carrier operations for China won’t be happening overnight. That being said, the timeframe probably won’t be as long as some hope for.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
The number of carriers in a navy has nothing to do with whether or not the navy is a 'blue water navy'. The RAN for instance, has no aircraft carriers currently in service, and has not had in almost 40 years, yet would be considered a 'blue water navy'. The distinction of what constitutes a blue vs. green or brown water navy has to do with where the specific navy in question can or does operate. If a navy can and does operate in blue water/deep water/open ocean environments, as opposed to shallow water/littoral environments or others, then a navy would be considered a blue water navy.
Interesting article on the role of the Political Commissar in the command chain at sea. Where split second decisions have to be made by the ships captain, he / she still has to get the commissars approval. That can be the difference between life and death whilst they're have a party meeting.
news.usni.org
Political Commissars on Chinese Warships Play Crucial Role in Interactions With Foreign Vessels - USNI News
Confrontational or irrational moves by Chinese warships and planes may not be actions of a “rogue commander” but rather decisions by a political commissar, a new report describes. Cmdr. Jeff Benson, a senior military fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and a former U.S...
news.usni.org
Shiiiiiiiit! Sounds like fun, having a party dog on board snitching on everyone! I read somewhere in an article on infantry equipment that the PLA equips infantry units with two radio's, one for the commander and one for the commissar. What a sickening practice.Interesting article on the role of the Political Commissar in the command chain at sea. Where split second decisions have to be made by the ships captain, he / she still has to get the commissars approval. That can be the difference between life and death whilst they're have a party meeting.
Political Commissars on Chinese Warships Play Crucial Role in Interactions With Foreign Vessels - USNI News
Confrontational or irrational moves by Chinese warships and planes may not be actions of a “rogue commander” but rather decisions by a political commissar, a new report describes. Cmdr. Jeff Benson, a senior military fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and a former U.S...
Does anyone know how these political watch dogs effect unit cohesion and combat effectiveness? How does it effect reaction times when decisions are to be taken by committee? And what good is a commander when the commissar is trained "how to take command"? What does this mean? Do they take over when a crisis ensues?
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Sounds pretty similar to what the Soviets had in place, they had a political Officer as well
They did at that, but from what I understand the zampolit didn't have the same level of operational control of the ships. Therefore in a situation where a split second decision is required, the ship's captain has the freedom to act. Of course afterwards he would have to justify his actions to the zampolit if needs be.
A zampolit was a very different beast from a commissar. In the Red Army commissars were largely a leftover from the civil war when military commanders were often military specialists or voenspetsi from the Imperial Army that were professionals who could do the military aspect of the job but whose allegiance was potentially questionable. The practice wasn't very helpful during the opening of the Great Patriotic War, and consequently the position was permanently eliminated in 1942. It's important to note that even the Red Army did not permanently maintain the position, but instead had it 1918-1924, and then re-instituted it again in iirc 1937 as the Soviet Union entered a string of conflicts from Spain and the Far East to Romania, the Baltics, and Finland. A commissar could, in theory, completely take over an army unit (or naval ship) and displace the commander entirely. The zampolit was basically a deputy of the commander responsible for the political education of the troops and morale. From what I understand a commander wouldn't formally have to justify themselves to the zampolit, as they generally outranked them. But a zampolit had channels through which they could pass up reports about the commander if their conduct was problematic. Marshals Konev and Zhukov were instrumental in changing this role.
It appears that the first PLAN Type 075A LHD is soon to start it's sea trials. If you look at the attached image from the article it appears that there is still smoke stains on the hull port side aft by the tug, from the April fire.
www.navalnews.com
China's First Type-075 Assault Carrier Is Starting Sea Trials - Naval News
The Chinese Navy's newest amphibious warfare asset, the Type-075 LHD (Landing Helicopter Dock) is setting sail for the first time.
www.navalnews.com
I'm sure this class of ship will be one of many for the PLAN.It appears that the first PLAN Type 075A LHD is soon to start it's sea trials. If you look at the attached image from the article it appears that there is still smoke stains on the hull port side aft by the tug, from the April fire.
China's First Type-075 Assault Carrier Is Starting Sea Trials - Naval News
The Chinese Navy's newest amphibious warfare asset, the Type-075 LHD (Landing Helicopter Dock) is setting sail for the first time.
Many navy's include the RAN are seeing the utility of such platforms.
A smart looking ship by any standard.
Just hope it stays north of the equator.
Regards S
They definitely look the part! But why would they invade a country they already own?
Read up on this thread, just wanted to warn people to take anything that Minnie Chan writes with a massive grain of salt... She has nebulous "sources" and constantly makes outlandish and inconsistent claims, see this post:
www.scmp.com
Where 1 year after PLAN cuts carrier building to 4 they suddenly decide to build 6...
China steps up shipbuilding with two more aircraft carriers under way
As China aims to equal US naval strength in the Pacific, its first domestically developed carrier begins final assembly process.
www.scmp.com
Where 1 year after PLAN cuts carrier building to 4 they suddenly decide to build 6...