I believe its engine oil, which also restricts a few other jet types. Here's a reference that quotes a Boeing manager of the P-8 programme...
Boeing's P-8 program viewed as "model" defense procurement - Leeham News and Analysis
Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #6,782
Given the figures I came across were 15 and 18 hours respectively, with the Wedgetail and Poseidon having a different max endurance by 3 hours, but both aircraft are based off the B737 and use the same turbofans, I tend not to think it would be engine oil. TBH though, I suspect this hard limit might be something which is never really confirmed.
Takao
The Bunker Group
No - that's still an issue. It's just that a greater % of the IIP can be devoted to covering the current and replacement fleets because other capabilities aren't being chased. The opportunity cost of having these fleets all come in at the same time is...larger than you would think.
Consider that by the mid-30's you will be looking at Hawk, EA-18G, E-7A, C-130J, and FVL - that's a lot of $$.
Big draggy thing on top of the wedge-tail I imagine wouldn't help range.
Also I assume after 18hrs+ plane is probably around its max design limits for crew and passengers. These are after all civilian based planes.
That is all the beer that can fit into the beer trolley.
Big draggy thing on top of the wedge-tail I imagine wouldn't help range.
Also I assume after 18hrs+ plane is probably around its max design limits for crew and passengers. These are after all civilian based planes.
That is all the beer that can fit into the beer trolley.
They may need a larger trolley!
Regards S
The Bombardier Global 6500 is somewhere in between, significantly bigger than the G550 but more like it than the 737/A320, with a range & speed more like the G550 than B737 or A320.
But AFAIK you're right & there's nothing that really fits your size/flight performance criteria.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Perhaps instead of lobbing the Canadian government for licensed builds for foreign fast jets, Bombardier should have been lobbying for military applications for their C-Series. Might have allowed them to keep control of the program and generate some revenue. Too late now.
Bombardier has been pursuing military applications of the Global Express (with Raytheon & SAAB) & Q400 (with SAAB), but AFAIK there's never been any Canadian government interest.
The RAF bought five Sentinel ground surveillance aircraft with Raytheon radars on Global Express. The UAE will soon start taking delivery of five Globaleyes, SAAB & Leonardo AEW & ground surveillance systems on Global 6000, & two SIGINT/ELINT Global 6000s. SAAB has been trying to sell its Swordfish MPA system on the Global 6000 & Q400 for a while.
The RAF bought five Sentinel ground surveillance aircraft with Raytheon radars on Global Express. The UAE will soon start taking delivery of five Globaleyes, SAAB & Leonardo AEW & ground surveillance systems on Global 6000, & two SIGINT/ELINT Global 6000s. SAAB has been trying to sell its Swordfish MPA system on the Global 6000 & Q400 for a while.
Bombardier Global Express performance is very similar to the G550, but the larger versions (Global 6000 & 6500) are bigger and can carry a fair bit more. SAAB selected the Global 6000 for its Globaleye AEW aircraft (about to start deliveries to the UAE) & so far unsold Swordfish MPA.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
When RCAF P-3s finally expire, the Canadian government may consider the Swordfish, cheaper than a P-8 and pork for Quebec plus the P-8 will probably be out of production by Aurora replacement time.
FormerDirtDart
Well-Known Member
Except that "Swordfish" doesn't exist, and Saab stopped marketing it about a year and a half ago Saab puts marketing effort for Swordfish maritime plane on hiatus
The P-8A will be long out of production then. The NZG bought ours now instead of 2025 because we were told that it was basically last orders. The last of ours will be delivered late 2023 so I would think that's towards the end of the production run.
I also had a look at the upgraded Aurora specs and actually think our P-3K2 is quite better specced.
Takao
The Bunker Group
Unless the RAAF pulls some shenanigans to acquire some more P-8s after the decision on Triton is made, you can expect the line to close in May...
Lack of potential customers, I think. The only likely ones in a reasonable timescale had committed to other types. Waste of effort & money to chase others.
It half exists already, though, in the form of Globaleye: same airframe, some of the same airframe modifications, same mission system (that's what SAAB says) & some of the same sensors. SAAB wouldn't be starting from scratch.
Aviation Week article on the Boeing Airpower Teaming System (ATS) that it's building in Australia in partnership with the RAAF, Boeing Builds ATS Assembly, But Will Not Say Where | Aviation Week Network. As you can see from the article title both Boeing and the RAAF are being somewhat coy about the location of the build. BAE is also involved as well as AME Systems, the Australian subsidary of RUAG. The power plant is believed to be jet engine used in small business jets. So it appears to be using a high amount of COTS and MOTS components.
The article refers to B.A.E incorporating technology from some of the other programs in development like Taranis , this could mean that possibly B.A.E may hope to sell these aircraft to the R.A.F ,B.A.E operates in the U.S under special security arrangements Im not aware if the Australian division of B.A.E has to concen itself with operating here under similar laws to the U.S.A technology transfer or Australian national security concerns ,e.g. anything classified as AUSTEO
Boeing was touting it might be possible to restart P8 production capability, as the 737 Max is still being built and has previously been able to support multiple 737 on the same line. However, with the Max issues, I don't hear that touted much anymore. The 737Max are piling up so the regular output of 737 isn't happening. They want to shut down the regular production line of 737's.
www.seattletimes.com
There was earlier hope that they might be able to extend production to 2025.
www.reuters.com
But that is 8 months old and some expected haven't happened.
US doesn't seem to be ordering more. Which is a big blow. Losing those 20 odd planes really move the line closure up ~2 years.
www.forbes.com
If you were after something like a P8 I would be knocking on the door sooner rather than later.
More P8's for the RAAF I like the sound of. Particularly armed with LRASM and the normal load of anti-submarine stuff. I never really cared for capability of P3's with harpoons. But P8's with LRASM sounds way more capable to my ears.
Shutdown likely at Boeing Renton as 737 MAX crisis extends
The Boeing board is considering a proposal by management to stop 737 MAX production this week or next and keep the assembly lines closed until the FAA clears the jet to return to commercial service. That is likely to mean...
www.seattletimes.com
There was earlier hope that they might be able to extend production to 2025.
U.S. Navy official sees more orders for Boeing P-8A in coming months
The U.S. Navy expects additional U.S. and international orders for the Boeing P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft in coming months, which should extend production by two years to late 2025, a senior U.S. Navy official told Reuters.
www.reuters.com
US doesn't seem to be ordering more. Which is a big blow. Losing those 20 odd planes really move the line closure up ~2 years.
U.S. Navy Plans To Stop Buying P-8 Poseidon Sub Hunters Despite Growing Undersea Threat
Russia and China are improving their submarine forces, requiring a robust U.S. response.
www.forbes.com
If you were after something like a P8 I would be knocking on the door sooner rather than later.
More P8's for the RAAF I like the sound of. Particularly armed with LRASM and the normal load of anti-submarine stuff. I never really cared for capability of P3's with harpoons. But P8's with LRASM sounds way more capable to my ears.
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Takao
The Bunker Group
Senior unnamed Boeing personnel is all I can offer....
I don't. In a financially constrained world spending money on three more P-8s gets us exactly nothing - especially if the RAAF decide to set up a second squadron. I'd much rather spend the money on something else that will do the Joint Force more. Even with the stand-off range of LRASM; big, fat, slow aircraft are just targets. The P-8 meets that criteria.
Spend the money on better permanent sensors - SOSUS networks across the north. Then the P-8s can be targeted. Or spend the money on sovereign RORSATs. Integrate onto F-35A. Integrate into long-range fires. Or look beyond the maritime domain - there are many holes in the Joint Force much more important than three more aeroplanes