Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates
- Thread starter stephen weist
- Start date
Hmmm ... I was not the least bit grumpy about that. It was bloody good to watch. But agree .... off topicEngland 19 - New Zealand 7
Nothing to do with the Canadian Navy.
Lockheed Martin Latest Solid-State Radar Now Designated AN/SPY-7(V)1 - Naval News
The previously unspecified radar for the CSC finally got an official designation: SPY-7
A scaled up version of this is going to form the core of a new Japanese AEGIS Ashore system.
The previously unspecified radar for the CSC finally got an official designation: SPY-7
A scaled up version of this is going to form the core of a new Japanese AEGIS Ashore system.
Nice catch @wowu5!
Also related to CSC, according to the latest print issue of Esprit de Corps magazine, the first CSC will be delivered to the RCN in 2026. The article also indicated that the requirements reconciliation phase will only be 9 months, not the 3-4 years previously reported. So, considering this started in February, we should start to see some confirmed capabilities in the next few months.
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Underway
Member
DeWolfe is expected next year. She's been delayed again. Speaking to my friends who work there have said that its not a huge surprise. First of class always have some growing pains. On the good news side, whatever they are doing "in the building" is working as their efficiency numbers are up and their error rates are way way down on ship three
This is likely due to the heavy requirement work being done up front to avoid litigation. It also helps that it's the third ship class undergoing requirement reconciliation in the last 6 years. The experience on the Government side (RCN, and others) is beginning to show.
Black Jack Shellac
Active Member
Another way to buy frigates
Above is an interesting article outlining the differences between the Australian and Canadian procurement of the Type 26. It more or less outlines why Canada is so pathetic in procuring for the military and Australia seems to have their shit together. I thought it was an interesting read.
Above is an interesting article outlining the differences between the Australian and Canadian procurement of the Type 26. It more or less outlines why Canada is so pathetic in procuring for the military and Australia seems to have their shit together. I thought it was an interesting read.
I thought this was a useful point to reflect on:
For more complex systems (submarines, frigates, AWDs) defence procurement is very challenging.
So also easy to criticise.
In recent years I feel that the ADF seems to be getting it right more often than not.
Regards,
Massive
Black Jack Shellac
Active Member
I liked that Australia compensated their bidders whereas Canada did not. By compensating the bidders for the effort, the chance of litigation is greatly reduced.
Very interesting indeed! I knew superficially Canada was terrible at military procurement, but reading it in detail ...wow!
You also tend to get better constructed bids and better detail because you pay for it. Bids at this level aren't just one day efforts and a few pages. Its can be months or years of work often involving subcontractors etc. You get more serious bids, because its not just a rag tag team. This all or nothing, make it politically difficult for those within an organisation to decide to bid on a project.
I do find this comment a bit odd... I see it often repeated in Canadian literature.
Not really sure WW2 experiences are that relevant. In getting to Australia, they defeated the UK and US forces in the region.
Canada was also attacked by Japan, with Go-Fu bombs. Axis U-boats operated in Canadian waters throughout the war sinking multiple ships ( SS Saganaga and SS Lord Strathcona were sunk by U-513 on 5 September 1942, while SS Rosecastle and P.L.M 27 were sunk by U-518 on 2 November with the loss of 69 lives). The Germans fired a torpedo at Bell Island, which is part of Canada.
Sure, the attack on Darwin was bigger than anything Canada saw (although it was of similar size to the ones the Americans had in Pearl Harbor and British saw in Singapore), most of the attacks were mere harassment attacks causing minimal damage to infrastructure and essentially minimal injury. Japan never invaded and forced us back. Australia never suffered the issues of 1775 and 1812.
As for being in a more dangerous part of the world. If the danger is China Vancouver is closer to Beijing than Sydney, and in between China and Australia there are a dozen major nations. If the Danger is Russia, I am pretty sure Canada is closer.
Australia really isn't at risk of direct competition with other great powers over land and resources. At least for mainland Australia.
Anyway. I think Australia has finally sorted its procurement issues through a lot of hard lessons. Australia has been pretty successful in bringing online new capability and has several very ambitious projects. It certainly isn't perfect, we have been looking a lot at other nations procurement systems and trying to form best of types.
I think you massively understate the seriousness of Australia's position I am surprized you are not being roundly chastised for it. For accuracy. PNG was an Australian protectorate and was invaded ... in fact it was a prolonged and bloody campaign. Militia units were used in PNG precisely because it was considered part of Australia.
Darwin suffered 64 air raids from Feb 1942 until Nov 1943. Air raids also occured in Broome, Wyndham, Townsville, Horn Island and Derby. There were also attacks by submarines, including shelling, as well as midgit submarines.
The first raid in Darwin saw three allied warships and five merchant vessels sunk along with ten damaged. 280 personnel were killed and all essentail services were knocked out. This has to be measured in the context fo the fact Darwin was a small town with a limited population. Australia committed considerable resources to defending Darwin and this made subsequent raids more costly for the Japanese.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Well said, very well said.
My father, who was in the medical corp was supposed to be on the Hospital ship Centaur which was heading to PNG to pick up wounded, his group missed the ship before it sailed (which was fortunate for me), it was sunk by a Japanese sub with the loss of 268 lives.
One uncle (Army) was based in Darwin during the period of the bombings (he survived), another uncle was an Army Sapper in PNG (survived too), and my mother (in her late teens) was in Sydney during the attack on Sydney Harbour by Japanese mini subs, I well remember her telling the stories of hearing the sound of the shelling from the mother subs.
AHS Centaur - Wikipedia
Axis naval activity in Australian waters - Wikipedia
List of ships sunk by Axis warships in Australian waters - Wikipedia
Attack on Sydney Harbour - Wikipedia
Air raids on Australia, 1942–43 - Wikipedia
All had a big impact on my family.
Sea trials for the first Arctic and Offshore Patrol Vessel (AOPV) - (HMCS Harry DeWolf - 430) have started: Harry DeWolf Trials | Halifax Shipping News.ca
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Novascotiaboy
Active Member
Watched her a couple times today. Was accompanied by a tug most of the day. Last I saw her she was in close to the Ceres container terminal making a slow turn.
In the open waters of the basin the hull looks much larger than it appeared tied to the Irving wharf.
Lets hope for fair seas and good tests.
So nice to see progress after 15 months alongside.
In the open waters of the basin the hull looks much larger than it appeared tied to the Irving wharf.
Lets hope for fair seas and good tests.
So nice to see progress after 15 months alongside.
Novascotiaboy
Active Member
This morning as I crossed the Mackay bridge around 10 the Dewolfe was pulling away and the Margaret Brooke has been moved to the quayside where Dewolfe spent the last 15 months fitting out. As Dewolfe was not visible this afternoon at Irving she must have gotten out of the harbour into the North Atlantic for the first time. Winds are strong from the north today as the basin was white. Hope they had a good first day in the big water.
One of the items under test in this phase are the retractable fin stabilizers, according to the Irving press release. A spin in the North Atlantic in a brisk November day aught to be a good test case.
Canada’s lead Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ship builder’s sea trials underway
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Novascotiaboy
Active Member
Up close looking at them thru the fence you are only a couple hundred feet from them and they dont look as big as the Dewolf looked when she was in the Bedford Basin. I do not think todays winds would have presented a challenge for the design. At 103 m and one and half as much tonnage as the Halifax frigates these are not small ships. I got aboard Asterix and I hope to get the chance to get aboard one of these soon. I have heard horror stories of the learning curve in building Dewolf but I have confidence the process will get better as the builders themselves mature. The Margaret Brooke appears alot further along so she should hopefully meet her turnover date next fall.
I'm not refuting or understating Darwin. I am not downplaying Darwin. I do not intend to offend.
Just pointing out that I don't think WWII references are terribly relevant explanations for the two nations modern defense procurement planning and structure. That there were also attacks in Canadian waters and infrastructure during multiple wars.
I don't get how people claim Canada faced no threats during WWII or before or after.
Battle of Bell Island - Wikipedia
The Canadians lost 137 civilians in a single night when the SS Caribou - Wikipedia was hit.
I think it is complete revisionism to say that those people did not die in the War and by an attack from an enemy U-Boat. That there were no deaths in Canadian territory during WW2.
Getting back into the thread HMCS Margaret Brookes was named after a survivor of the SS Caribou.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
I would respectfully disagree about whether or not Canadian and Australian experiences from WWII are relevant to current defence procurement, planning and structure.
Realistically, the situations Canada and Australia found themselves in at various times during WWII were quite different. While both nations were subject to attempts by Axis forces to interdict shipping, those SLOC were themselves quite a bit different in both the nature and usage by the Allies. This in turn was influenced by the national situations for the two countries at the time of the war. One of the major situational differences was that Canada was a point of origin for war material which would then be shipped to the European theatre, while Australia (with less industrial capacity appropriate to produce war material) was more of either a destination or trans-shipment point.
This in turn is further reinforced by looking at the island-hopping campaigns the Empire of Japan conducted in the early part of the war, getting to within sight of Port Moresby in 1942 before having to withdraw due to setbacks on Guadalcanal in the Solomons. Had either the US been defeated on Guadalcanal (or if they had never managed to land) or Australian and Papuan forces been less effective in PNG, Japan would have taken Port Moresby and then had facilities to support warships as well as fighter and bomber aircraft, all within 800 km of Cairns on the Australian mainland. I am not aware of any Axis campaign to seize territory able to support naval vessels and/or aircraft near Canada or even just North America.