Royal New Zealand Air Force

[RegR]

C-130J-30 Super Hercules is it for the Tactical solution.

Super Hercules selected as preferred option | Scoop News

No final contract decision has been made, on either platform numbers, detailed costs, or funding and Budget implications. A Project Implementation Business Case is scheduled to be progressed to Cabinet next year, where these matters will be considered. The Defence Capability Plan 2019 noted that the estimated cost would be more than $1 billion.


There you go all settled!!

Bitter sweet but now we finally have a path and should be rather straight forward from here once we get the ball in motion so at least timelines should be quicker from now on.

Definately proven, improvement debatable but hercs do look good in air force grey already so good times ahead. Hopefully we get at least another 1 ideally 3 on current but a goals a goal, all down to final negotiations now although I feel we may have lost any edge as Lockheed has it in the bag, anyone else would have to do something pretty spectacular to bump them now.

 

[RegR]

The NFH definitely would be in the frame and by the time the RFT is issued - currently planned for 2024, the current issues surround the NFH hopefully should be solved. The MH-60 Romeos yes they are also quite viable, however in USN service the Romeo is due to be replaced and if we went down that path we would be acquiring a platform near or close to the end of its life, similar to the SH-2G(NZ) Seasprite situation when we acquired them. One issue I can see with the NFH is whether or not it would fit in the ANZAC FFH hangar.

Hopefully from NH stables, as this would be how I see us gaining those extra 90 frames with a split NFH/TTH buy. Simplified, qualified and known with say 5-6 NFHs to cover the combatants and 3-4 marinised TTH for the supporties and to directly support JATF ops but all somewhat interchangeable mission dependant ie sub hunting/island resupply/HADR. Optioned and specific for maritime ops (auto blades, deck harpoon etc) from the outset and all replacement ships (ANZACS/OPVs) considered for the helos rather than helos for the ships accordingly.

Obviously there would need to be some massaged timings requiring either longer running of sprites, earlier replacement of ships or acquiring the marinised TTHs sooner as lead ins and use off End and CY now.

MH60 still a valid option although still another type with all that entails and yes near end of its cycle whereas NFH should surely be squared and in its prime by then (should..).

 

[milliGal]

Sooooo, what’s going to replace the Seasprite?

Maritime NH90s?....are they too big for that particular role (ASW / ASUW) ..can you launch ordnance off them (?) - you would get commonality with 3Sqn. OK Disregard - Googled and saw that there is the NFH - NATO Frigate Helicopter - so definitely an option.

MH-60 Seahawks?...proven maritime helo...commonality with Aussie airframes and can cross train / use their simulator (I ASSume they have a sim). Probably my preference.

Something else......?

I still would love to see a couple of CH47’s in our inventory somewhere....yeah,yeah...I know...another ‘type’ and only a couple would have some downsides but those things would add some real capability across a lot of mission templates.

The French brought forward their H160M program by a few years recently, and it is now scheduled to come into service around 2026 IIRC. They have an airforce, navy and army version planned, and the timeline fits quite well with the Seasprites end of service date. NZ likes to go for the proven platforms though so it may be too immature to be considered.

 

[Redlands18]

The NFH definitely would be in the frame and by the time the RFT is issued - currently planned for 2024, the current issues surround the NFH hopefully should be solved. The MH-60 Romeos yes they are also quite viable, however in USN service the Romeo is due to be replaced and if we went down that path we would be acquiring a platform near or close to the end of its life, similar to the SH-2G(NZ) Seasprite situation when we acquired them. One issue I can see with the NFH is whether or not it would fit in the ANZAC FFH hangar.

The NH-90 was the final loser to the MRH-60 in the RAN Air 9000 phase 8, I doubt it would have even been considered if it didn’t fit into a Anzac Hangar. If I remember correctly the comments where it will fit but it is tight.

 

[Calculus]

More on the Herc replacement: Wellington taps C-130J as preferred type for airlift upgrade

Seems somewhat official now...

 

[MrConservative]

I hope the left hand knows what the right hand is doing when the time comes to nail this all down because selecting a helicopter on the basis that it is the only one to fit into the hangar of a vessel that will likely be still in service for a brief period is probably not a good idea.

There is another DWP in 2022. Hopefully that can muster up the urgency of bring these two projects into greater focus including the Anzac replacement bought in closer to the Seasprite replacement timeline.

 

[milliGal]

Came across this nice infographic on the C130J-30 vs the C130H in the NZ context.

While not a significant game changer, it still offers a decent boost in capabilities over the legacy model and should serve NZ well.

 

[Todjaeger]

The NH-90 was the final loser to the MRH-60 in the RAN Air 9000 phase 8, I doubt it would have even been considered if it didn’t fit into a Anzac Hangar. If I remember correctly the comments where it will fit but it is tight.

Part of the issue with the NFH-90, and why it did not win the RAN order, was that while it could (more or less) fit into the FFH hangar, the phrase I recall being used to describe the conditions was, "not enough space left to swing a bee's d*ck..." which to me means that it cannot really fit into the frigate hangar. Something to consider since it now seems likely that the FFH's will be kept in service until the mid-2030's.

 

[John Fedup]

@Todjaeger ...bee's d*ck, that's right up there with the CH unit of measurement.

 

[swerve]

Am a bit wary about the Wildcat because I've heard some unflattering things about it through back channels.

That's interesting.Can you be more specific?

 

[ngatimozart]

That's interesting.Can you be more specific?

The main gist being that it was a load of crap and not as good as the Lnyx to operate or maintain. Of course sailors love to whinge, drip and moan, especially pommy sailors, but this appeared to be a bit more than normal. Yes I know that it is a Lynx derivative.

 

[Rob c]

The main gist being that it was a load of crap and not as good as the Lnyx to operate or maintain. Of course sailors love to whinge, drip and moan, especially pommy sailors, but this appeared to be a bit more than normal. Yes I know that it is a Lynx derivative.

Time and a bit of maturity may solve any problems.

 

[Kiwigov]

Apparently a Blackhawk has arrived in NZ https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/113441250/first-ever-black-hawk-united-states-military-helicopter-arrives-in-new-Zealand, including for logging purposes. I presume taking over the job which John Funnel's fleet of Mi-8s used to handle in the central North Island (I got to skydive out of one when he consented to it's one-off use as a jumpship at Taupo DZ in the late 1990s).
Be interesting if the RNZAF check out its load capacities, though obviously planned Budget limits mean it is highly unlikely any would be purchased

 

[ngatimozart]

Apparently a Blackhawk has arrived in NZ https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/113441250/first-ever-black-hawk-united-states-military-helicopter-arrives-in-new-Zealand, including for logging purposes. I presume taking over the job which John Funnel's fleet of Mi-8s used to handle in the central North Island (I got to skydive out of one when he consented to it's one-off use as a jumpship at Taupo DZ in the late 1990s).
Be interesting if the RNZAF check out its load capacities, though obviously planned Budget limits mean it is highly unlikely any would be purchased

The UH-60 Blackhawk was considered during the project assessment that the NH-90 won. It did not fully meet the the customer (NZ Army) requirements so that was the reason that it was not selected and the NH-90 was. Apparently the Blackhawk is real let down after the Iroquois and that comes from an ex UH-1H pilot who's flown the UH-60.

 

[Xthenaki]

LATEST - ENTIRE AIR FORCE FLEET OF C130 HERCULES GROUNDED AFTER BREAKDOWN - STUFF NEWS

@Xthenaki A link and some commentary would be appreciated. HT provided the link in his post below. You be in the naughty corner, so no pudding for you tonight.

NG.

 

[htbrst]

Here is the link: Entire air force fleet of C-130 Hercules grounded after break-down

Quite a bit of detail from the Foreign Affairs and Defence Committee discussing the C-130 replacement including they will be purchased via FMS and the KC-390 was too immature.

Stuff understands a Hercules broke down across the Tasman recently, during the Australian General Election Campaign - blocking and delaying the takeoff of Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison's plane.

Morrison was not on his plane at the time.

So the breakdowns almost directly caused a Trans-Tasman incident

 

[Milne Bay]

Here is the link: Entire air force fleet of C-130 Hercules grounded after break-down

Quite a bit of detail from the Foreign Affairs and Defence Committee discussing the C-130 replacement including they will be purchased via FMS and the KC-390 was too immature.



So the breakdowns almost directly caused a Trans-Tasman incident

So five new C-130J-30 Hercules via FMS sees to be the preferred option.
Quite a sensible choice for NZ in my view - commonality with the RAAF being a not insignificant factor.
MB

 

[Xthenaki]

LATEST - ENTIRE AIR FORCE FLEET OF C130 HERCULES GROUNDED AFTER BREAKDOWN - STUFF NEWS

@Xthenaki A link and some commentary would be appreciated. HT provided the link in his post below. You be in the naughty corner, so no pudding for you tonight.

NG.

Sorry for that.. Its back the computer and source the right way to download from outside media and post here. Will sort it out.

 

[Xthenaki]

Here is the link: Entire air force fleet of C-130 Hercules grounded after break-down

Quite a bit of detail from the Foreign Affairs and Defence Committee discussing the C-130 replacement including they will be purchased via FMS and the KC-390 was too immature.



So the breakdowns almost directly caused a Trans-Tasman incident

Thank you for finishing off the posting that I failed to complete. Will sort out my problem.

 

[ngatimozart]

Sorry for that.. Its back the computer and source the right way to download from outside media and post here. Will sort it out.

Don't worry about it.