PRC Peoples Liberation Army Navy
- Thread starter Wall83
- Start date
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Well, I mean on proven is that steam ones is a proven tech. They have one in ex Melbourne for some time that they can toying around. However they are not developing further on that area, and as you have point goes to electro-magnetic tech.
Yes, they have abundance resources being committed on the area, but no catapult on their own being proven besides showing they have test facility.
For that their first Catobar, this type 002 will have long period of development and prove of concept period trials. Perhaps even longer that Liaoning trial periods.
That's why I have doubt they can field 5-6 Catobar carrier..and that includes the nuclear type 003, by 2030.
The 'fan boys' in Chinese forums (which that article seems based upon), seems to forgot that even Liaoning actually still in trial concept until now. And they think by a decade China can master successfully 5-6 Catobar ?
Too much 'what-if' scenarios can happen..they think since their shipyards now proven has capacity to build 'carrier'..then it's a same thing with capabilities to successfully operated a new completely 'type' carrier that PLAN has no experience before ?
I do believe by 2030 they have Catobar Carriers in operational status. But 5-6 on two type Catobar (conventional and nuclear) by that time period ?..even with China resources..it's just too much 'fan boys' fantasy.
Last edited:
The only reason I can think of for wanting to get rid of it is that it is a lemon. It is after all their first venture into building aircraft carriers and the ship it was based on an outdated Soviet design with a hull that was effectively just rescued from the breakers yard. The Chinese government originally stated that it was simply for research and training purposes and maybe that wasn't too far removed from the truth.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
For a couple of days, already circulating on some blog and media in here on articles based on Chinese sources that by period of 2030-35, PLAN will have four Nuclear Carriers (which mean Type 003). While the conventional one, the type 002 will be build only one as transition CATOBAR carrier to Nuclear powered Type 003.
From what I read on Chinese online sources and media, they plan to used modified reactor design from the one being used in Type 094 SSBN.
Well, French also used modified SSBN reactor design on Charles de Gaule. And that's what my problem in believing on That 4 nuclear powered carriers by 2030-35.
French have problem in integration of that SSBN reactor based to their carrier. Even after sort it out, if not mistaken, it still considered bit underpowered.
Now, I don't have enough info and the reliability of type 094 reactors. However with the amount of patrols that still less than contemporary US, UK, French, and Russian SSBN, raised a question for me on the reliability of the reactor.
They should rely more on this type 002, build couple more, before goes to type 003 after a decade on successfully operating type 002 CATOBAR carriers. Thus give time on developing more realizable reactors for a 'Nimitz' size carriers that this Type 003 plan to be.
Despite their fast pace on development, PLAN so far seems only build proven design in big numbers. This talk on building and operating 4 Type 003 nuclear carriers with just around slightly more than a decade, seems not in line with more conventional progressing path that PLAN do so far.
On the topic of Liaoning transfered to Pakistan...If what those Chinese analysts statement can be used as cue on what PLAN planning for carriers force.. Then they don't really need Liaoning for much longer.
Despite my reservation on believing they will able on operating the first Type 003 Catobar Carriers by some time in mid 2020's (if they plan to stick on schedule of 4 type 003 in 2030-35 period)..if they somehow manage to do that..the type 001A and 002 will be used at their trial and transition Carriers.
Thus the type 001/Liaoning.. if based on that schedule, can be released after Type 001A and Type 002 fully operational within 2-5 years period. Not 2020 as the article mentioned, but somewhere between 2023-25.
Again this based on assumption that their Type 002 is successful as Catobar Carriers, and they have developed reliable reactors as propulsion for their Type 003 on schedule.
The question is..can Pakistan afford operating Liaoning ? It might be not as USN standard..but still can match India's modified ex Russian carrier, and that much delayed domestically build Italian design Carrier.
From what I read on Chinese online sources and media, they plan to used modified reactor design from the one being used in Type 094 SSBN.
Well, French also used modified SSBN reactor design on Charles de Gaule. And that's what my problem in believing on That 4 nuclear powered carriers by 2030-35.
French have problem in integration of that SSBN reactor based to their carrier. Even after sort it out, if not mistaken, it still considered bit underpowered.
Now, I don't have enough info and the reliability of type 094 reactors. However with the amount of patrols that still less than contemporary US, UK, French, and Russian SSBN, raised a question for me on the reliability of the reactor.
They should rely more on this type 002, build couple more, before goes to type 003 after a decade on successfully operating type 002 CATOBAR carriers. Thus give time on developing more realizable reactors for a 'Nimitz' size carriers that this Type 003 plan to be.
Despite their fast pace on development, PLAN so far seems only build proven design in big numbers. This talk on building and operating 4 Type 003 nuclear carriers with just around slightly more than a decade, seems not in line with more conventional progressing path that PLAN do so far.
On the topic of Liaoning transfered to Pakistan...If what those Chinese analysts statement can be used as cue on what PLAN planning for carriers force.. Then they don't really need Liaoning for much longer.
Despite my reservation on believing they will able on operating the first Type 003 Catobar Carriers by some time in mid 2020's (if they plan to stick on schedule of 4 type 003 in 2030-35 period)..if they somehow manage to do that..the type 001A and 002 will be used at their trial and transition Carriers.
Thus the type 001/Liaoning.. if based on that schedule, can be released after Type 001A and Type 002 fully operational within 2-5 years period. Not 2020 as the article mentioned, but somewhere between 2023-25.
Again this based on assumption that their Type 002 is successful as Catobar Carriers, and they have developed reliable reactors as propulsion for their Type 003 on schedule.
The question is..can Pakistan afford operating Liaoning ? It might be not as USN standard..but still can match India's modified ex Russian carrier, and that much delayed domestically build Italian design Carrier.
Last edited:
My gut feeling is that the PLAN would want to make the Liaoning work.
The unknown is if there are some issues with this old ship that preclude it form its intended role as an aircraft carrier, be that as a training ship or an operational vessel. If fixed wing is problematic, Liaoning still has a lot to offer as a general training platform or alternatively as a dedicated helicopter platform to compliment the yet to be built Type 075 LHD's.
Not the first time an aircraft carrier has being used as a marine asset.
Just speculation, but if the ship has mechanical issues that are not worth persevering with, then I doubt the Pakistan navy or any other country would want such a large ship, requiring a large crew, offering a questionable return on investment.
Regards S
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Are the engines the same smokers as Russia’s sole carrier? I recall the numerous photos of the Russian ship transiting to Syria a couple years ago.
Hi KiwiRob
I was wondering the correct words to use as your correct the ship has had a lot of work done to it and should be in good nick, but then again we probably both know something of its history.
Are our APC's 50 years old or 10 years old; probably depends how you look at it?
Only an uninformed guess, but I'd say it's in good condition and will serve the PLAN for many years ahead within the constraints of it's design.
Regards S
The 4 original Russian engines were still installed, just never used, they were entombed in greace to preserve them. The Chinese recommissioned then in 2011 and made them work properly, she doesn’t smoke like her sister.
Exposed: How China Purchased Its First Aircraft Carrier
This article provides some interesting background ,and also on the negotiating tactics employed at the time
This article provides some interesting background ,and also on the negotiating tactics employed at the time
As with anything, if you throw enough money and manpower anything is possible.
I would believe the Chinese have been throwing both at her. She is probably in much better material condition than her Russian kin. The Chinese weren't just looking for a cheap carrier, they wanted to make their own, so would have a very extensive refurbishment, as to be able to build clones.
I would believe the Chinese have been throwing both at her. She is probably in much better material condition than her Russian kin. The Chinese weren't just looking for a cheap carrier, they wanted to make their own, so would have a very extensive refurbishment, as to be able to build clones.
Interesting story.
Maybe we could learn something about the art of negotiating "the deal" from MR Xu.
Allegedly the key is to get those your negotiating with very drunk and receptive of US Dollar handouts.
As to the truth .....................well the PLAN did get a aircraft carrier from the Ukraine so something must of transpired.
I'd suggest "The Deal " would make a good movie. A comedy of course!
Now does anyone know of any carriers on the market today?
Cheers
Regards S
From what I understand the Chinese also acquired the blueprints for the partially completed than scrapped on the slipway Soviet nuclear powered aircraft carrier Ulyanovsk. She was built in the same yard.
Probably not for the PLAN forum but if the cold war kept going for a few more years the Soviets would may of had maybe three large carriers and also four of the existing Kiev class carriers.
Quite a force.
The PLAN in six years time will have?
Regards S
The P.L.A.N has commenced building the type 003 carrier it has a claimed weight of up to 110,000 tons nuclear propulsion is also planned ,Emal system is also claimed to be incorporated , Im not sure which aircraft is to be used because the aircraft showed some design issues with reliability