PRC Peoples Liberation Army Navy

[ngatimozart]

China continues to coerce its neighbours by use of the PLAN, maritime militia and Coastguard. It is thought that if it is successful with this policy on the SCS, it will extend it against South Korea and Japan. The CCP has also transferred control of the Coastguard from the State Oceanic Body to the Central Military Commission which means now that it is a fully militarised force, more so than the likes of the US Coast Guard. This means that for all intents and purposes the white hulled ships are grey hulled ships.

 

[KiwiRob]

Any of you gents have info on how many Type 52 and Type 55 destroyers PLAN will have in their planning.

Don't really got solid info on that from Chinese forums. The Chinese forumers tend to inflate the numbers to 30 Type 55 and 60 type 52.

Type 052C 6 have been built and are in service.
Type 052D there are 26 planned, 8 are under construction, 11 are in service.
Type 055 there are 8 planned, 6 are under construction, none are in service.

 

[Stampede]

I'm not sure that the PLAN is as big of a threat as it is sometimes made out to be. Their experience in nuke subs is lacking, and their AShMs are often based on foreign export designs. The speed with which they have built their grand fleet is impressive, but their relative lack of experience of operating such a navy is a huge weakness. I think it will take considerably longer for the PLAN to build up the operating experience and add some those truly advanced capabilities to their otherwise impressive-looking force.

As far as their intentions go, it's unlikely they will be able to truly challenge the USN any time soon, and any major war between them and any of their powerful neighbors (Japan, South Korea or Taiwan), however unlikely this scenario is, would ultimately draw in the USA. It's far likelier that they will be used to support Chinese pretensions in Africa, and participate in the support of friendly regimes against relatively weak opponents, much like the role of the Russian VMF in the operation in Syria.

Thanks Feanor

Agree its not just ships that make a capability but also training and lots, repeat lots of experience.

That said there appears to be a great conviction to grow the PLAN as fast as possible, so this is in itself concerning.
Not wanting to take a knife to a gun fight I don't see some major fleet on fleet action between the PLAN and the US in the immediate future.
I can see this region slowly having to make choices of either been with us or against us. This will apply to both China and the USA. Neutrality will not be an option . When Chinese soft power and inducement fails, the big stick will start to be felt by the smaller players.This will have flow on effects
As the camps form, we can look at the history books to fear the worst or look for signs of hope.
It could go many ways and I truly hope commerce and trade will see both camps seeing the benefits in working with each other and not against each other.
Good national leadership will be important in steering a peaceful path.

I trust the current two leaders have these skills.
I'm not overly confident they do.

Lets watch the progress of the PLAN and its rival across the Pacific.

Concerned S

 

[Ananda]

Type 052C 6 have been built and are in service.
Type 052D there are 26 planned, 8 are under construction, 11 are in service.
Type 055 there are 8 planned, 6 are under construction, none are in service.

Thanks Kiwi..the low number that I got on Type 52 seems in line with what you put (in the 30's, the high number is 60). The number for type 55 even the low one in Chinese forums that I got is still higher in dozen..

Your number in my opinion is more realistic..However if they plan (as I read on some Chinese sources) for 2 type 55 for each carrier..and if they plan at least 6 carrier..then perhaps a dozen Type 55 can be happening.

However I tend to see PLAN move on 4 carriers, thus 8 Type 55 as you've mentioned seems more realistic

 

[Ranger25]

Any of you gents have info on how many Type 52 and Type 55 destroyers PLAN will have in their planning.

Don't really got solid info on that from Chinese forums. The Chinese forumers tend to inflate the numbers to 30 Type 55 and 60 type 52.

I cant find anything indicating a 50-60 Hull Range.

More like 6 currently, 4 floated, two still building but that doesn’t Indicate any totals.

China Kicks off Work on 6th Type 055 Guided-Missile Destroyer

 

[Ananda]

There's mentioning in Chinese media (have to used google translate) on comment that Type 52 will be developed as Chinese Equivalent for US Arleigh Burke in capabilities and numbers. Thus based on that Chinese forumers seems talking of 50-60 numbers based on how many Burke class now in USN.

Frankly I don't see any official confirmation on this,which I only put it as Chinese forumers talk. Still I have not found solid sources on my own on how many Type 52 that PLAN really want to build.
Thus why I put the question here, hoping some of you gents have more info (as Kiwi already put it on his post above).

 

[FORBIN]

There's mentioning in Chinese media (have to used google translate) on comment that Type 52 will be developed as Chinese Equivalent for US Arleigh Burke in capabilities and numbers. Thus based on that Chinese forumers seems talking of 50-60 numbers based on how many Burke class now in USN.

Frankly I don't see any official confirmation on this,which I only put it as Chinese forumers talk. Still I have not found solid sources on my own on how many Type 52 that PLAN really want to build.
Thus why I put the question here, hoping some of you gents have more info (as Kiwi already put it on his post above).

I think for 052D eventualy with 052C ? never see such number and it is not serious.
Don't trust these places… majority of these guys do propaganda '" fanboys " excited after a century down and want beat all others countries arrogants bla bla bla … and confirmed by serious authors also they invent, i have see many things fake pics etc.. only country which do it never see for others military even Russia or sometimes can be more difficult to find infos.
Despite it can be good for pics especialy new armaments and confirm/underpin infos but use with great care

And the 052D is a DDG the Burke for size/power almost CG much more powerful 96 - 98 silos/launchers vs 64 and much more capable for ASW with 2 very good MH-60R vs 1 Z-9C and Ka-28 for quality mediums

 

[Air Force Brat]

China continues to coerce its neighbours by use of the PLAN, maritime militia and Coastguard. It is thought that if it is successful with this policy on the SCS, it will extend it against South Korea and Japan. The CCP has also transferred control of the Coastguard from the State Oceanic Body to the Central Military Commission which means now that it is a fully militarised force, more so than the likes of the US Coast Guard. This means that for all intents and purposes the white hulled ships are grey hulled ships.

Yes Sir! what a "train wreck",,, of course there is a full court press to convince the uninformed that all this is in the best interests of "all the neighbors"..

 

[FORBIN]

China’s carrier-aviation developments: making a difference
At the current rate of Chinese naval construction, China is on course to possessing the greatest carrier power-projection capability, other than the US, by the 2030s.

Both Liaoning and Shandong in service end 2019 or 2019

 

[FORBIN]

2 last LPD Type 071 on 6

 

[ngatimozart]

The first home designed and built PLAN Type 001 CV, has started it's first sea trials last Sunday. Apparently it was towed out of Dalian port by tugboats. Coincidentally a Type 055 DDG started its sea trials a couple of days prior.

 

[Belesarius]

https://www.janes.com/images/assets/210/84210/p1734477_main.jpg

Images emerge of new Chinese submarine | Jane's 360

 

[t68]

China to sell an aircraft carrier to Pakistan

Certainty shows the age of the aircraft carrier is not obsolete just yet, cant see another battle of Coral Sea/Midway either in the missile age

 

[ngatimozart]

China to sell an aircraft carrier to Pakistan

Certainty shows the age of the aircraft carrier is not obsolete just yet, cant see another battle of Coral Sea/Midway either in the missile age

Have my doubts about that story. Doesn't make sense because the Liaoning can be and is used as a training carrier. Secondly, it's the only operational carrier they have at the moment.

 

[foxdemon]

Have my doubts about that story. Doesn't make sense because the Liaoning can be and is used as a training carrier. Secondly, it's the only operational carrier they have at the moment.

The article seems to have some inconsistencies. It states the sale will be 18 years after the Liaoning entered service (ie: 2030) but then states the sale will be 2020. Could be a typo. I don’t think it unreasonable for China to sell an old, second hand carrier to Pakistan once China has 5 or 6 CATOBAR carriers with AEW&C aircraft, AtoA refueling and stealth fighters.

 

[Ananda]

The Chinese PLAN brass already mentioned in their local media that Catobar Carriers is the way of the future.

If we based on that, then both ski jump carriers Liaoning and it's modified sister type 001A will be redundant in near future.
However, I personally doubt they can have 6 Catobar in 2030 time frame. If we look their media and internet forums, they plan to build Catobar in two class, the conventional power type 002 and nuclear power type 003, which they claim all will be based on EMALS catapult systems.

This which I doubt they can field six Catobar by 2030 time frame. Catobar is new system that they have to master on their own. They will not have know how from USN as partner..and despite all their espionage effort..this is the thing they have to master on their own.

Granted they have Liaoning and it's sister to master carrier operation, but we all know mastering Ski Jump carrier operation will be different with Catobar operation.
Say they manage to launch this type 002 as their first Catobar in 2020. It will make another 2 years to field it and mastered it. And there's another problem with their Catapults..they seems want to jump to EMALS all together and abandoned more proven steam ones..and this will take time to prove their EMALS worthiness in operation. Even USN still have trouble with Ford EMALS.

Considering that, I more tend to see, by most optimistic scenario, by 2030 they can only build 2 conventional type 002 and 2 nuclear type 003. However this nuclear type 003 will be another challenge, since they haven't build large nuclear power surface ships, let alone on the size of a carrier.
Their ship based nuclear reactor reliability is still on development, considering their SSN and SSBN operational is not as much and as far what Russian, US, UK and French has done so far.

So if this type 002 prove a success, I tend to see they will build four of them at most by 2030, while they still have to invest more time after 2030 to developed their Nuclear type 003.

Back to the topic, with 4 Catobar type 002, they will see Liaoning and it's sister as redundant, since PLAN will maintain more Catobar operating Aircraft. In that scenario..yes, selling Liaoning to Pakistan with all the Ski Jump operating Aircraft can be their alternative to get rid redundant capacity.

Again this is on the scenario of PLAN successfully having and operating more Catobar Carriers as the article mentioned.

 

[Stampede]

Have my doubts about that story. Doesn't make sense because the Liaoning can be and is used as a training carrier. Secondly, it's the only operational carrier they have at the moment.

Have my doubts about that story. Doesn't make sense because the Liaoning can be and is used as a training carrier. Secondly, it's the only operational carrier they have at the moment.

Yes I'd agree.
The Liaoning is too much of an asset for the PLAN to sell off at this stage.
I would be guarded as to this transfer of the Lioning to the Pakistan navy any time soon.
Maybe when the PLAN have another few carriers operational it may happen, but that will be some years away.


Regards S

 

[Stampede]

A little article from the ABC
Make of it as you wish.


Chinese fighter jets fly around Taiwan with sobering Lunar New Year message

Dancing children ,scenic shots of coast and countryside........................... "plus fighter jets!"
Now what is the PRC really trying to say.
Further more, is this for a domestic audience or a foreign one.
I think the Liaoning will stay for some time to come with the PLAN.

Regards S

 

[swerve]

The Chinese PLAN brass already mentioned in their local media that Catobar Carriers is the way of the future....

. And there's another problem with their Catapults..they seems want to jump to EMALS all together and abandoned more proven steam ones..and this will take time to prove their EMALS worthiness in operation. ...

Steam catapults aren't proven in China. The Chinese are reported to have built one for tests, AFAIK, & that's all.

They have maglev trains, though, originally German-built & designed, but they've been building their own for a while now. Same basic technology. They've been working on adapting it to catapults for carriers (not a trivial problem, but they have lots of resources) for a long time, & are thought to have had an experimental one working for a few years.

 

[ASSAIL]

Steam catapults aren't proven in China. The Chinese are reported to have built one for tests, AFAIK, & that's all.

They have maglev trains, though, originally German-built & designed, but they've been building their own for a while now. Same basic technology. They've been working on adapting it to catapults for carriers (not a trivial problem, but they have lots of resources) for a long time, & are thought to have had an experimental one working for a few years.

AFAIK the PLA-N have had a working catapult ever since they acquired ex HMAS Melbourne CVS 21. I had left the service by then but I assume they had a working example of a modified Brit design.
In 1985 China was not seen as the military threat that it is today so I assume that the heavy gear such as cats and traps were not completely removed before disposal?