Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[oldsig127]

So for a first batch, Attack, Advance, Archer, Arrow, Assail, Aware (not sure about Acute or Adriot doable, but less resonance, how often have you used the term adriot in conversation)

It's actually "Adroit" (skilful, agile, cunning, ingenious - all highly appropriate to a submarine) and I use it quite frequently, but I take your point. Not everyone has a vocabulary these days

oldsig

 

[oldsig127]

Great. Looks like the class will be named after historical personages
Thank you
MB

The news is months old and was discussed here at length. All not just historical personages, but famous navigators and explorers, but the explanation given by Navy at the time was "Australian Regions"

oldsig.

 

[hauritz]

The news is months old and was discussed here at length. All not just historical personages, but famous navigators and explorers, but the explanation given by Navy at the time was "Australian Regions"
oldsig.

It is difficult to see any relationship between the Hunter Valley, Flinders Ranges and the Tasman Sea other than they were all named after explorers. Mind you Abel Tasman, Matthew Flinders and John Hunter were all Europeans.

Having said that "Hunter" is a good name for a class of ASW vessels.

 

[ASSAIL]

It is difficult to see any relationship between the Hunter Valley, Flinders Ranges and the Tasman Sea other than they were all named after explorers. Mind you Abel Tasman, Matthew Flinders and John Hunter were all Europeans.

Having said that "Hunter" is a good name for a class of ASW vessels.

They are regions, you added the qualifiers, they are regions in the same way as names such as Derwent, Swan, Barossa, Kimberley, Pilbara, Fitzroy, Whitsunday, Murray, Mallee, Burdekin and a plethora of other regional names.

 

[Takao]

Having said that "Hunter" is a good name for a class of ASW vessels.

So is Parramatta, Swan, Warrego, and Yarra. Or Stuart, Vampire, and Vendetta. Or Queenborough, Quadrant, Quality, Quiberon and Quickmatch. Or Napier, Nestor, Nizam, Normal or Nepal.

Grrr......

 

[t68]

So is Parramatta, Swan, Warrego, and Yarra. Or Stuart, Vampire, and Vendetta. Or Queenborough, Quadrant, Quality, Quiberon and Quickmatch. Or Napier, Nestor, Nizam, Normal or Nepal.

Grrr......

To be honest I was hopping the AWD were going to be the Voyager class with Voyager,Vendetta,and Vampire......well maybe the replacements in 35 years time

 

[hauritz]

Ex-Navy Group Concerned Over French Built Submarines.

For those who can't get through the paywall here is an excerpt

Defence should plan an evolved variant of the controversial Collins-class submarines to compete with the French-built boats that are already being designed for Australia, according to four retired senior naval commanders.

But Defence Minister Christopher Pyne has rejected the call, saying the option presented by the “long-retired naval officers” had been “considered thoroughly and rejected following the results of independent review”.

Retired Rear Admiral Peter Briggs and the three former commodores yesterday wrote to Scott Morrison calling for the “Son of Collins option” to be considered in case the French submarine design was found to be unsatisfactory. They warned the Prime Minister the decision to build the French submarines, known as Shortfin Barracudas, could leave Australia with just one new submarine in operational service in 2040. “We are writing to you about the Future Submarine Program, reflecting our profound concern about a lack of submarine capability in the future as well as with the excessive costs and risks of the program,’’ wrote the group, which included commodores Paul Greenfield and Terry Roach.

“We are strongly of the view that the government should evaluate a second option, at very low cost and without impeding the present approach. The alternative option, that we believe could be cheaper, quicker and less risky and offer a greater level of Australian industry participation, is to build an evolved version of the Collins class.’’

I suspect that we will be talking about this for decades.

There might still be a few political hurdles for the new Attack Class submarines to negotiate before they commence construction. Pyne seems confident that the French boat is the best option but with most polls seeming to suggest a change of government next year his support might not mean that much.

An Evolved version of the Collins class might have been a good idea 10 years ago but with a 2022-23 deadline for the new sub to commence construction, I don't think there is sufficient time for this. At least not for the first batch.

 

[t68]

An Evolved version of the Collins class might have been a good idea 10 years ago but with a 2022-23 deadline for the new sub to commence construction, I don't think there is sufficient time for this. At least not for the first batch.

Well I'm no Naval architect, but from a layman's position I would assume that Son of Collins and the Shortfin Barracuda would be in an identical situation. The only difference that I see is that the French have a design team being set up using an existing platform for medication and the plans for Son of Collins have languished due to funding cuts under labour both wont have detailed design but have done preliminary work, how far along the Son of Collins got in planning I guess we will never know.

 

[alexsa]

Good to see the RAN has announced the name of the new SEA1000 submarines, they will be known as the Attack Class.
No doubt that in the not to distant future the will be HMAS ASSAIL
There were 9 ‘A’ class PB names, 10 if you include the PNG boat Aitape.
They were Attack, Adroit, Advance, Archer, Ardent, Arrow, Assail, Acute and Aware. Most have RN Battle Honours.

Navy’s future submarine class named

I love the name. I was hoping for a return to the O boat names but this is a really good option. Noting like a name with teeth and history. Now we just have to build them.

 

[alexsa]

Well I'm no Naval architect, but from a layman's position I would assume that Son of Collins and the Shortfin Barracuda would be in an identical situation. The only difference that I see is that the French have a design team being set up using an existing platform for medication and the plans for Son of Collins have languished due to funding cuts under labour both wont have detailed design but have done preliminary work, how far along the Son of Collins got in planning I guess we will never know.

The advocates of the sone of Collins miss the point that unless you are simply plugging the Collins hull to increase length (for which ‘some’ design work has been done) then it is a whole new design and you are starting a few years behind the Naval Group option. The range and internal volume of the the future submarine is a step change from Collins. Add LiO batteries and they should have great persistemce.

A lot of ex defence folk (self included) have their pet projects and being objective is often difficult. I have always tried to focus on what is operationally ....... and politically .... achievable. Not a fan of the French but the deign they have will be unheralded as a conventional submarine. I would love SSNs but that is not going to happen .....at this point in time.

 

[SpazSinbad]

@ASSAIL Hopefully you'll be around to sponsor it.

Not only but also negotiations were concluded on 10th Dec but only revealed now by DefMinPAIN (sorry could not resist). Article written by Nigel Pittaway.

"Australian Defence Minister Christopher Pyne confirmed that the Australian government has finally concluded negotiations for the formal signing of a strategic partnering agreement ...“There’s been a lot of ill-informed mythmaking around the negotiations but I’m very happy to say today the negotiations are complete,” Pyne said... Declining to provide details of the intricacies of the agreement due to their commercial nature, Pyne said the negotiations were officially concluded at an Australian Government National Security Committee meeting in Melbourne on Dec. 10...." 14 Dec 2018 Australia, Naval Group conclude sub negotiations

 

[hairyman]

When the Anzac frigates are all de-commissioned, Anzac and Arunta will become available as A names. They are both dinkum Aussie names and should be kept in use.

 

[Redlands18]

I love the name. I was hoping for a return to the O boat names but this is a really good option. Noting like a name with teeth and history. Now we just have to build them.

People are assuming that they are all going to be A class names giving the meaning of "Attack" it may not be necessarily the case and we may see a number of different historily important names such as Vendetta, will have to wait and see.

 

[MrConservative]

When the Anzac frigates are all de-commissioned, Anzac and Arunta will become available as A names. They are both dinkum Aussie names and should be kept in use.

A case for Arunta, but Anzac has NZ in it need I remind you. Not letting you claim it completely as a dinkum Aussie name mate. No problem using it as a ships name though.

 

[MARKMILES77]

I noticed in the Dec/Jan DTR that Christopher Pyne has now stated that the Pacific Support Ship will almost certainly be built in Australia.
That means anything approaching LHD and probably even Choules size is a non starter.
Intriguing to consider what sort of vessel they may have in mind?
Probably talking 12,000 tonne and down.

 

[Stampede]

The latest edition of Defence Technological Review has an article about the Pacific Support ship.

Defence Technology Review : DTR DEC JAN 2019, Page 1

Reinforces what we know about the proposal.
Not very much.

DTR has many other interesting articles across the services.
A good read.


Regards S

 

[ngatimozart]

A case for Arunta, but Anzac has NZ in it need I remind you. Not letting you claim it completely as a dinkum Aussie name mate. No problem using it as a ships name though.

@MrConservative I think that we should start thinking about a suitable punishment for the @hairyman over this. Maybe a fine or he should have to quaff 1 doz cans of warm Waikato or Lion Red?

 

[MrConservative]

@MrConservative I think that we should start thinking about a suitable punishment for the @hairyman over this. Maybe a fine or he should have to quaff 1 doz cans of warm Waikato or Lion Red?

I would have difficulty with that as it would be a contravention of Art.16 of the UN Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, particularly with respect to the suggested products used.

 

[ngatimozart]

I would have difficulty with that as it would be a contravention of Art.16 of the UN Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, particularly with respect to the suggested products used.

Well i am sure that we could find paper work linking it to winston

 

[htbrst]

I noticed in the Dec/Jan DTR that Christopher Pyne has now stated that the Pacific Support Ship will almost certainly be built in Australia.
That means anything approaching LHD and probably even Choules size is a non starter.
Intriguing to consider what sort of vessel they may have in mind?
Probably talking 12,000 tonne and down.

Perhaps a sister-ship for HMNZS Canterbury to keep things cheap and cheerful ... While I don't think that's whats on the table, she would fit most of the vague requirements so far.