New Zealand Army

[protoplasm]

I had an additional thought for people to consider regarding taking the NZLAV turrets off 'surplus' vehicles and re-using as part of a stationary system.

If one looks at the direct fire weapons developed over the last 50 years or so, how many direct fire guns of 20 mm or large calibre have been developed which are not mobile/vehicle mounted? Towed AT guns are largely a thing of the past, as is parking a direct fire gun in a fixed position.

If you're in a position where a fixed direct fire gun of a reasonable calibre is able to engage the enemy, you're already screwed. All the enemy has to do is use an indirect fire weapon and take it out. As it's not mobile it's location will be very quickly localised and then taken out. It won't even really slow the enemy down that much as they hit you. If on the other hand it is effective, it could simply be replaced by something much cheaper to achieve the same effect (a direct fire weapon to deter / repel attacks on a fixed position). There isn't really any justification for spending one extra dollar on converting a surplus turret to a fixed emplacement, as it doesn't buy any greater capability than can already be achieved using existing systems.

Now a C-RAM system, that'd be worthwhile....

 

[kiwipatriot69]

If you're in a position where a fixed direct fire gun of a reasonable calibre is able to engage the enemy, you're already screwed. All the enemy has to do is use an indirect fire weapon and take it out. As it's not mobile it's location will be very quickly localised and then taken out. It won't even really slow the enemy down that much as they hit you. If on the other hand it is effective, it could simply be replaced by something much cheaper to achieve the same effect (a direct fire weapon to deter / repel attacks on a fixed position). There isn't really any justification for spending one extra dollar on converting a surplus turret to a fixed emplacement, as it doesn't buy any greater capability than can already be achieved using existing systems.

Now a C-RAM system, that'd be worthwhile....

Id like to see some sort of mobile air defense for Nz, seeing we dont have fast jet airstrike for some yrs now, and unlikely to do so with this govt at least. The British army version of CAMM , mounted on MAN trucks for instance, seeing we bought both the same vehicle/platform for the army and the missile itself, for our frigates, surely then intergrating the mounted battery would be easier to do so now, i wonder how much the cost would be and what numbers ,training would be required?

 

[Todjaeger]

Id like to see some sort of mobile air defense for Nz, seeing we dont have fast jet airstrike for some yrs now, and unlikely to do so with this govt at least. The British army version of CAMM , mounted on MAN trucks for instance, seeing we bought both the same vehicle/platform for the army and the missile itself, for our frigates, surely then intergrating the mounted battery would be easier to do so now, i wonder how much the cost would be and what numbers ,training would be required?

Honestly, absent a greatly increased, obvious (and unarguable) threat, I do not see NZ raising a GBAD SAM capability. One has to remember that the Mistral MANPADS capability that the NZ Army used to have has been given up an the kit put into storage. IIRC the capability was given up because the cost to maintain the capability (training, kit updates, etc.) was deemed too expensive, particularly in the face of likely threats NZ forces would face.

Any vehicle based SAM system with a potential engagement range beyond the 8 km typical for most MANPADS is going to be vastly more complicated and therefore expensive to establish and then sustain. A MANPADS operator typically sights the launcher optically, whereas a CAMM-based SAM launcher would likely require a radar system to detect/track aerial threats and then a fire control/datalink system to relay needed information to the missiles. In addition to the costs associated with purchasing all the required kit and then maintaining it, additional personnel would be required to train to operate the various SAM systems to make it effective, and then that training would also need to be sustained. This would either mean creating some new training programmes for things like ground-based radar operators, or finding appropriate programmes elsewhere that NZ can send personnel to, as well as either getting additional personnel or reassigning some existing NZDF personnel from other roles.

Given the likely costs and rather long list of existing major defence capabilities which NZ needs to update/replace, I do not see a GBAD system being raised.

 

[TheRedDwarf]

Hello all.

On the sixteenth of November of last year, Shephard Media published an article titled 'NZDF hones skills with overseas mates in Southern Katipo', a piece now sadly locked behind a paywall. Among the items located therein, it was stated that, over the course of the exercise, elements of 2/1 battalion RNZIR were re-equipped with a number of trial pieces of equipment, including a revised cut of camouflage uniform and a new form of webbing. No images were included in the article.

However, in July of this year, the site 'JointForces.com' released anarticleon exercise Southern Katipo which included an interestingimage, with the following text appended to it;

One section of 2/1 RNZIR trialled a new uniform cutting and webbing, seen here – this soldier is carrying a 7.62mm AR-10 Designated Marksman Rifle produced by LMT and fitted with a Leopold 4.5-14x scope [© Gordon Arthur]

Somewhat interesting, I suppose.

 

[40 deg south]

Hello all.

On the sixteenth of November of last year, Shephard Media published an article titled 'NZDF hones skills with overseas mates in Southern Katipo', a piece now sadly locked behind a paywall. Among the items located therein, it was stated that, over the course of the exercise, elements of 2/1 battalion RNZIR were re-equipped with a number of trial pieces of equipment, including a revised cut of camouflage uniform and a new form of webbing. No images were included in the article.

However, in July of this year, the site 'JointForces.com' released anarticleon exercise Southern Katipo which included an interestingimage, with the following text appended to it;

Somewhat interesting, I suppose.

I understand there are significant grumbles from the troops over the durability of the new NZ-specific camouflage uniforms. Colour-fastness seems to be a major issue, with kit coming out of the washing machine notable lighter in shade than when it went in. I was shown some trou that looked like, in their disgruntled owners words 'F***ing Norwegian arctic f***ing survival gear'.

I have no idea if this is confined to specific batches, or is a more general problem.

 

[40 deg south]

NZDF's new rifles - all 9040 of them - get firing pin replacements after breakages

NZ Herald has picked up on a story from the most recent Army News about problems with the firing pins of the new LMT rifles. Reading between lines, it seems as if the manufacturer had a batch with dodgy heat treatment. Probably because it can't trace exactly which weapons were affected, LMT has replaced the whole lot under warranty.

NZ Army has also put out a short promotional video on the role of the SAS and the new battle training facility.

 

[steve33]

NZDF's new rifles - all 9040 of them - get firing pin replacements after breakages

NZ Herald has picked up on a story from the most recent Army News about problems with the firing pins of the new LMT rifles. Reading between lines, it seems as if the manufacturer had a batch with dodgy heat treatment. Probably because it can't trace exactly which weapons were affected, LMT has replaced the whole lot under warranty.

NZ Army has also put out a short promotional video on the role of the SAS and the new battle training facility.

Excellent video good to see our guys so well equipped and good to see something positive about the NZSAS they have been under the hammer from the media lately.

 

[40 deg south]

Given the service background of the current Minister of Defence was in the transport/logistics side of the army, I have been expecting news on two army-based projects:
- the proposed fleet of 'home duties' civilian-based trucks to take some of the day-to-day logistics burden off the very small fleet of MAN military trucks
- an upgrade to a portion of the LAVIII fleet

Has anyone else heard of any progress in the past year?

 

[ngatimozart]

Given the service background of the current Minister of Defence was in the transport/logistics side of the army, I have been expecting news on two army-based projects:
- the proposed fleet of 'home duties' civilian-based trucks to take some of the day-to-day logistics burden off the very small fleet of MAN military trucks
- an upgrade to a portion of the LAVIII fleet

Has anyone else heard of any progress in the past year?

Nope, not a whisper. Never know, they might replace the NZLAV with White half tracks and Centurion tanks

 

[Cadredave]

Given the service background of the current Minister of Defence was in the transport/logistics side of the army, I have been expecting news on two army-based projects:
- the proposed fleet of 'home duties' civilian-based trucks to take some of the day-to-day logistics burden off the very small fleet of MAN military trucks
- an upgrade to a portion of the LAVIII fleet

Has anyone else heard of any progress in the past year?

Don't expect to see "home duties" civilian trucks in service that no longer a priority for Army, networked enabled and protected mobility are the next big ticket spends for Army also a likely reorg for the force structure is still on the cards...only time will tell with the new CA in office

 

[t68]

Not sure what you do in NZ, I believe in the ADF they just buy what they need from commercial suppliers but because they don’t pay rego and duties etc they put them up for auction when they reach 100k or 4 year old and still get good resale value

 

[John Fedup]

Nope, not a whisper. Never know, they might replace the NZLAV with White half tracks and Centurion tanks

If junior cancels the Saudi LAV deal, there could be a boatload of discounted LAVs available from GD Canada.

 

[Redlands18]

Not sure what you do in NZ, I believe in the ADF they just buy what they need from commercial suppliers but because they don’t pay rego and duties etc they put them up for auction when they reach 100k or 4 year old and still get good resale value

Back in the 90s when I was in the ARA they would be purchased under DUP(Direct Unit Purchase). The unit could purchase Vehicles direct from an authorised Dealer such as Cars, Utes, People Movers, Lt Buses, Vans, Trucks up to about 4t, with strict guidelines on Colour(most were White) and what you could have fitted. The only way you could tell they were Military was the Number Plate. Not supposed to be taken off Tar but occasionally were and sold off at 100,000ks. Serviced regularly but tended to be driven hard. Up to the mid 80s the Cars etc would be bought wholesale by the Army Painted Army Green and looked utterly dreadful. A 3 Series Landrover looked okay painted Green a Holden Commodore didn't

 

[kiwipatriot69]

What on earth would be the reasoning for Canada to cancel its Lav 3 sale to the Saudis, would the embassy murder of the reporter have something to do with it? Has your PM hinted at doing this already? Trump stated he's unwilling to do so, obviously there would be a backlash from defence contractors if either did.Those political campaigns don't run on thin air...

 

[ASSAIL]

Back in the 90s when I was in the ARA they would be purchased under DUP(Direct Unit Purchase). The unit could purchase Vehicles direct from an authorised Dealer such as Cars, Utes, People Movers, Lt Buses, Vans, Trucks up to about 4t, with strict guidelines on Colour(most were White) and what you could have fitted. The only way you could tell they were Military was the Number Plate. Not supposed to be taken off Tar but occasionally were and sold off at 100,000ks. Serviced regularly but tended to be driven hard. Up to the mid 80s the Cars etc would be bought wholesale by the Army Painted Army Green and looked utterly dreadful. A 3 Series Landrover looked okay painted Green a Holden Commodore didn't

I can confirm that, I went to a Pickles auction a while ago and all the Commonwealth vehicles were disposed of at 100kms and all the Territory ones at 40 kms

 

[ngatimozart]

What on earth would be the reasoning for Canada to cancel its Lav 3 sale to the Saudis, would the embassy murder of the reporter have something to do with it? Has your PM hinted at doing this already? Trump stated he's unwilling to do so, obviously there would be a backlash from defence contractors if either did.Those political campaigns don't run on thin air...

The Canadians and Saudi's are already having diplomatic handbags, over something else anyway, and our Canadian cousins have a different moral code to that of the US. Also the Saudi order comprises of an unknown number of LAV 6 vehicles, plus some LAV-6 hulls with Cockerill 105mm gun turrets.

 

[t68]

Also the Saudi order comprises of an unknown number of LAV 6 vehicles, plus some LAV-6 hulls with Cockerill 105mm gun turrets.

JNR should start the conversation with Jacinda great the palms with some cheap LAV-6 makes guy get the Anzac deal if they play the cards right

 

[John Fedup]

The Canadians and Saudi's are already having diplomatic handbags, over something else anyway, and our Canadian cousins have a different moral code to that of the US. Also the Saudi order comprises of an unknown number of LAV 6 vehicles, plus some LAV-6 hulls with Cockerill 105mm gun turrets.

Many in junior’s party along with the socialist NDP party have been whining about this deal for years. The Yemen situation has their knickers in a knot. The only reason junior hasn’t canceled the deal is the billion dollar penalty should he decide to cancel. After his $4.5 billion pipeline fiasco, he simply can’t afford another financial cluster &uck with an election due 1 year from now.

 

[KiwiRob]

Given the service background of the current Minister of Defence was in the transport/logistics side of the army, I have been expecting news on two army-based projects:
- the proposed fleet of 'home duties' civilian-based trucks to take some of the day-to-day logistics burden off the very small fleet of MAN military trucks

I've always thought the MAN fleet was a little on the small side, 194 vehicles to replace a fleet which once had 622 MOG's and 228 2228/41's.

Was this another case of quality over quantity? Like the 8 NH90 replacing 13 Huey's?

 

[Cadredave]

I've always thought the MAN fleet was a little on the small side, 194 vehicles to replace a fleet which once had 622 MOG's and 228 2228/41's.

Was this another case of quality over quantity? Like the 8 NH90 replacing 13 Huey's?

Nothing of the sort we had a budget and had to remain within it, didnt matter if it was MAN or new Unimogs or any other brand Army would not of got a one for one replacement without tagging onto another Countries purchase.

CD