MrC it wasn’t just lefties commenting on the cost of the P8’s plenty of right and hard right also made negative comments on the purchase. Ignorance on defence in NZ is across the board, both main political parties have done and will likely continue to screw over defense.
Royal Air Force [RAF] discussions and updates
- Thread starter neil
- Start date
Rob - Who on the "right" in the media (there are very few who I would deem as centre-right) made these negative comments because they will be off MrC's Christmas card list. I found that those columnists from the centre right were generally in favour and gave bouquets to Mr Mark.
Ignorance about defence matters are found anywhere including the UK where the RAF the main topic of this thread reside. Media nonsense exists everywhere.
The Daily Fail is utterly unreliable on any matter of serious reporting.
I won't touch it, or the Express, which spouts the same petty minded nationalist guff.
I can't remember which of the tabloids went off on a rant about the Navy's new "five inch gun" which at the time they printed, they seemed to believe was actually five inches long. Talk about men confusing their pistols with their weapons.
Even the more serious publications have failed in defence journalism and I can usually correct news articles on the fly when reading them.
I've said for a while that Airtanker isn't a great idea as it's yet another PFI deal where the government picks up the risks and the private company collect the profits - they're a fine accounting dodge to keep government borrowing down but that's the only upside. Otherwise, we're paying a private company to borrow money at higher costs than HMG could borrow it for and then paying a surcharge on top for profit. AAR should come back into RAF hands as soon as practicable.
Stobiewan:
Damn right. Chartering out spare aircraft: fine. Keeps costs down. Having a long-term support contract with the suppliers of the equipment, who do much the same for loads of commercial customers: fine. Paying for the aircraft by getting a commercial consortium to borrow money at commercial rates, i.e. more than the government would pay, while the government still has the ultimate risk: just plain stupid.
Damn right. Chartering out spare aircraft: fine. Keeps costs down. Having a long-term support contract with the suppliers of the equipment, who do much the same for loads of commercial customers: fine. Paying for the aircraft by getting a commercial consortium to borrow money at commercial rates, i.e. more than the government would pay, while the government still has the ultimate risk: just plain stupid.
And it ignores the facts that using the FFNBW aircraft for civil charters saves money for the MoD, as the income is offset against the bill to the MoD, & that if we were making full use of the entire fleet in peacetime, something would go seriously wrong if we needed to fight a war of reasonable intensity.
Whilst the RN was losing the Type 31e and the RAF was getting two bases cut by 2022 including RAF Scampton.
Red Arrows To Move As RAF Closes Two Bases
A Downing Street spokeswoman said: "That closure is part of a plan to deliver modern and efficient military bases, which will save the taxpayer about £140 million by the end of the decade.
Where is my bucket .....
Red Arrows To Move As RAF Closes Two Bases
A Downing Street spokeswoman said: "That closure is part of a plan to deliver modern and efficient military bases, which will save the taxpayer about £140 million by the end of the decade.
Where is my bucket .....
FORBIN
Member
Air Force Brat
Member
So Mister Forbin, 5 more B models were flown to the UK?? or delivered here in the states??
FORBIN
Member
Have touched down at RAF Marham
Ministry of Defence on Twitter
from Beaufort USMC base a part of this Sqn 617th is again there normaly 2 birds and now 9 in UK replace Tornado in this unit, next year 207th Sqn a OCU stand up.
The 17th Sqn a OEU is to Edwards with 4 birds UK have 15 on 48 F-35B
But for country as UK the delivery rythm is enough low ! the more fast except USA but normal many units to provide… is for Australia going for 12/year ! and Norway little country 6/year.
Play nice please.
Australia 15/year starting 2021, the average though is pulled down by the initial LRIP purchases
oldsig
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Australian Defence Magazine has a article about a possible RAF E-7A buy and in July 3 RAF personnel arrived at RAAF Williamstown to begin Training.
PS my Laptop is saying the Australian Defence Magazine Website is not secure so i wont post a Link, I have never had a problem there but if you Google it it should come up.
PS my Laptop is saying the Australian Defence Magazine Website is not secure so i wont post a Link, I have never had a problem there but if you Google it it should come up.
My computer doesn't detect any problems with the site.
UK moves closer to Wedgetail buy - Australian Defence Magazine
Interesting that the RAF are sending aircrew to train on an aircraft that they haven't yet decided to order. Maybe this is more of an evaluation exercise.
Mind you the Wedgetail would seem to be the obvious choice.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
There is also 2 US personnel doing training at 2 Sqn at present.
Last time they did that was Seedcorn - no official plan in place to buy it and yet..
I'm hopeful, I think Wedgetail looks pretty good plus it'll save us a chunk of change trying to keep the Sentries in the air.
From what I've heard being discussed, the RAF E-3s have been allowed to fall behind on updates, & it'd cost a lot to bring them up to date. It's been suggested that with the high cost of keeping them flying, it could be cost-effective to replace rather than update them, especially since they're pretty old tech now. Any replacement (& of course the AEW 737 is most likely) would be cheaper to operate.
That's the crux of the matter unfortunately - they're way off the curve and the upgrades to get them into line have been touted as 2bn and that's without any upgrades to the radar. I am getting super excited at the idea of leaping a generation and getting a much more modern platform into service.
At £2 billion for updating, & the likely cost of keeping 30 year old Boeing 707 airframes flying even with relatively modern CFM56 engines, I think that a one for one replacement by any of the current western AEW aircraft, even the biggest & presumably most expensive (the 737 AEW), should pay for itself almost immediately.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Per the MOD, the 2015 SDSR called for keeping the Sentry in service until 2035... whether or not that is technically feasible or economically sensible is of course another story.
Looking through some things, Turkey's Peace Eagle programme which delivered four Boeing 737-700 AEW&C aircraft based on the RAAF E-7 Wedgetail for an initial contract price of USD$1.6 bil. back in 2002, which included a software support centre. While time (and inflation) has moved on that would suggest that a 1:1 replacement of the RAF's current E-3D Sentry AEW.Mk1 for a version of the Boeing AEW&C would be a little over £3 bil.
While it appears that there would be a higher up front cost for getting a version of the Wedgetail, I suspect both the capabilities and operating/support costs would be better than that of upgraded RAF Sentries. I would not be surprised if it was projected that my estimated £1 bil. higher up front cost would be made up over a 15+ year service life by increased mission availability, reduced operating costs, and a potentially significantly reduced maintenance burden. The first Sentry entered RAF service in July, 1991 so has been in for 27 years at present. If the Sentries are kept until 2035, the type would have been in service for 44 years, while the airframe would have been out of production since 1992...