Japan Air Self-Defence Force

[t68]

As I looked I could not find a JASDF thread my apologies if there is one,

It appears that Japan has ordered 4x E2D Advanced Hawkeye for 1.7B USD, what I cant ascertain are these replacements or in addition to the current fleet,

Once these new aircraft enter service can the remaining aircraft be rebuilt to E2D standards or do these need to be replaced as well?

 

[John Fedup]

As I looked I could not find a JASDF thread my apologies if there is one,

It appears that Japan has ordered 4x E2D Advanced Hawkeye for 1.7B USD, what I cant ascertain are these replacements or in addition to the current fleet,

Once these new aircraft enter service can the remaining aircraft be rebuilt to E2D standards or do these need to be replaced as well?

The new planes will augment the E2Cs. I am guessing an upgrade program was not considered economically viable as compared to a new purchase. The USN is replacing its fleet of Cs with Ds.

 

[White Water]

The new planes will augment the E2Cs. I am guessing an upgrade program was not considered economically viable as compared to a new purchase. The USN is replacing its fleet of Cs with Ds.

According to MoD website, Japanese E-2C's electronics were updated to Hawkeye 2000 level (no NP2000 propeller) about 10 years ago. I do not know the reason they did not go for complete package. Maybe cost? Or did not think about China and East China Sea? IMO another example of myopia.

in Japanese (not linked so please copy, paste & add w w w. slowly approaching 10)

mod.go.jp/asdf/equipment/keikaiki/E-2C/

These additional E-2D's probably will be based in Okinawa.


I read in a paper, Asahi (another yellow rag btw), that Airbus decided not to bid on 3 tankers. So, Boeing wins this $1B contract by default. I thought MRTT had better performance (further distance with more fuel). Japan already has 4 KC-767J's and 4 E-767's, so logistics wise KC-46's will be little easier on them. However, Japan has a tendency to throw in a requirement which cripples many bidders. So, this may have been the case.

 

[John Fedup]

Recently Airbus Military declined to bid on naval utility helicopters for Japan.

Statement from Airbus Helicopters

 

[swerve]

I read in a paper, Asahi (another yellow rag btw), that Airbus decided not to bid on 3 tankers. So, Boeing wins this $1B contract by default. I thought MRTT had better performance (further distance with more fuel). Japan already has 4 KC-767J's and 4 E-767's, so logistics wise KC-46's will be little easier on them. However, Japan has a tendency to throw in a requirement which cripples many bidders. So, this may have been the case.

Airbus basically said "the requirement's rigged against us, so we won't waste time & money by bidding". In more diplomatic language, of course.

 

[White Water]

Recently Airbus Military declined to bid on naval utility helicopters for Japan.

(url deleted) Statement from Airbus Helicopters

Airbus basically said "the requirement's rigged against us, so we won't waste time & money by bidding". In more diplomatic language, of course.

Thanks! This confirmed my feeling regarding an innocuous local content requirement causing havoc on some bidders. Politicians need to be reelected and bureaucrats will support them. So, bidders probably will be Sikorsky/Mitsubishi, AugustaWestland/Kawasaki, and Bell/Fuji. At least it won't be a single bid like tankers. I thought if Airbus can sell A350 to JAL, then it should try to sell MRTT to JASDF.

 

[ngatimozart]

The contract has been awarded for the first of three of the JASDF KC-46 aircraft with a value of US$279 million. There is a difference in the reported contract value for the first aircraft. Defense News states that it is US$289 million, with the total contract being estimated at US$1.9 billion.

 

[MrConservative]

The contract has been awarded for the first of three of the JASDF KC-46 aircraft with a value of US$279 million. There is a difference in the reported contract value for the first aircraft. Defense News states that it is US$289 million, with the total contract being estimated at US$1.9 billion.

The JASDF are currently looking at the EA-18G as EW is an area where they have a capability gap. The KC-46 will eventually be capable of providing congruence to this beyond capability being a mere tanker.

 

[ngatimozart]

The JASDF are modifying a C-2 for ELINT. I am wondering why they are doing this with a C-2 and not the P-1. I would have thought that the P-1 would be a better platform for this capability.

ELINT version of C-2 transport conducts flight tests

 

[Rob c]

The JASDF are modifying a C-2 for ELINT. I am wondering why they are doing this with a C-2 and not the P-1. I would have thought that the P-1 would be a better platform for this capability.

ELINT version of C-2 transport conducts flight tests

Does seem a little odd, However the C2 does have a significantly greater range, AAR and a huge internal volume. If they are using several different mission modules this would also make sensible as it would be easy to swap them.

 

[kaz]

The JASDF are modifying a C-2 for ELINT. I am wondering why they are doing this with a C-2 and not the P-1. I would have thought that the P-1 would be a better platform for this capability.

ELINT version of C-2 transport conducts flight tests

The JASDF doesn't operate any P-1, so using the C-2 benefits logistics IMO.

The JMSDF also has its own fleet of electronic warfare aircraft (P-3). IIRC, the Global Hawks (or another UAV) were supposed to fill in some of their roles after retirement. Saving the JMSDF the burden of finding 1-on-1 replacements.

 

[ngatimozart]

The JASDF doesn't operate any P-1, so using the C-2 benefits logistics IMO.

The JMSDF also has its own fleet of electronic warfare aircraft (P-3). IIRC, the Global Hawks (or another UAV) were supposed to fill in some of their roles after retirement. Saving the JMSDF the burden of finding 1-on-1 replacements.

The JMSDF do operate the P-1 and there is some commonality between the P-1 and C-2. If it was decided to build a P-1 ELINT variant then there is no reason why the JASDF or the JMSDF operate it.

 

[FormerDirtDart]

The JASDF are modifying a C-2 for ELINT. I am wondering why they are doing this with a C-2 and not the P-1. I would have thought that the P-1 would be a better platform for this capability.

ELINT version of C-2 transport conducts flight tests

Good image of the RC-2航空自衛隊 Kawasaki C-2 18-1202 岐阜基地 航空フォト | by まんぼ しりうすさん 撮影2018年02月06日
Apparently they converted the 2nd prototype C-2

 

[swerve]

The JMSDF do operate the P-1 and there is some commonality between the P-1 and C-2. If it was decided to build a P-1 ELINT variant then there is no reason why the JASDF or the JMSDF operate it.

Except that's how they do it: JASDF & JMSDF have separate areas of responsibility, & separate fleets of aircraft. The JMSDF operates the P-3C for ELINT, alongside its MPA & optical recce P-3Cs, & the JASDF operates a C-1 alongside its C-1 transports, & a few YS-11s, which I think are now the last YS-11s in the JASDF but which used to operate alongside YS-11 transports. Yes, they could change the way they do things, but I doubt the JASDF would be happy to hand over all its EW capacity to the JMSDF, & it wouldn't make logistical sense for the JASDF to operate a handful of P-1s while the JMSDF operated the other 90% of the fleet.

 

[ngatimozart]

Lockheed are being reported as proposing a F-22 / F-35 hybrid to the JASDF, in an answer to a Japanese RFI. Apparently the Japanese F-3 program has stalled, likely due to the cost of going it alone. The Japanese could be looking at an aircraft with the sensors and data fusion ability of the F-35 and range of the F-22 . The F-3 is the replacement for the F-2 and F-15J.

 

[John Fedup]

I posted this proposal in the military aviation thread. Apparently it will need US government approval first. No mention if the design was single or twin engine but engines and radar are to be sourced in Japan.

 

[the concerned]

The proposed hybrid fighter that LM are suggesting could be an option for not just Japan but many other nations Israel for one. Maybe an option for the USAF themselves.

 

[John Fedup]

There are not too many allies which can afford JSFs and air superiority fighters which is what this new fighter proposal is. Also, it will take some time to develop. Unfortunately this proposal might provide an excuse for junior to get around a RCAF F-35 purchase or for more delay. As for the USAF, unlikely as they are already working on 6th Gen fighters. The Japanese have stated this LM design would have to have engines and radars sourced from Japan which won't be cost effective for the limited export market. IMO, if this jet existed, it would be an easier sale for left wingers here to accept as air superiority fighters are seen as interceptors defending Canadian sovereignty. A higher price wouldn't matter. If this jet happens, the only likely export market would be Israel and maybe Australia. A major ally partnering with Japan could be a different story.

 

[the concerned]

There are not too many allies which can afford JSFs and air superiority fighters which is what this new fighter proposal is. Also, it will take some time to develop. Unfortunately this proposal might provide an excuse for junior to get around a RCAF F-35 purchase or for more delay. As for the USAF, unlikely as they are already working on 6th Gen fighters. The Japanese have stated this LM design would have to have engines and radars sourced from Japan which won't be cost effective for the limited export market. IMO, if this jet existed, it would be an easier sale for left wingers here to accept as air superiority fighters are seen as interceptors defending Canadian sovereignty. A higher price wouldn't matter. If this jet happens, the only likely export market would be Israel and maybe Australia. A major ally partnering with Japan could be a different story.

A while ago I was talking about the possibility of taking the F-35 down the superhornet route would this be a viable air superiority option especially if you twin engine it

 

[t68]

A while ago I was talking about the possibility of taking the F-35 down the superhornet route would this be a viable air superiority option especially if you twin engine it

not 100% sure if you suggesting twin engine the current F35, but if so that a major departure from the design and would have to be totally redesigned from scratch. That would be a new aircraft program along with associated R&D cost and all that it entails.