Argentine navy future
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Redlands18
Well-Known Member
R.I.P and condolences to the Families.
A very sad end, the families must be devastated. The fact that the officials had this information for a week is not going to make it easier, there are going to be some very angry people. This has only come out because the US pieced together the data.
I would imagine Argentina will never operate a sub again.I would imagine this will cause a cascade of decommissions. The surface navy and the air force aren't in better material condition either.
RIP. Fair seas and following winds.
There are no flowers on a sailor’s grave
No lilies on an ocean wave
The only tribute is the seagulls sweep
And the tears upon a loved one’s cheek
Fear not for those who go down to the sea in ships
For as sunset draws near and dawn breaks afar
We remember those who have crossed the bar
Adapted by Keith Ingram JP (Ex RNZN)
There are no flowers on a sailor’s grave
No lilies on an ocean wave
The only tribute is the seagulls sweep
And the tears upon a loved one’s cheek
Fear not for those who go down to the sea in ships
For as sunset draws near and dawn breaks afar
We remember those who have crossed the bar
Adapted by Keith Ingram JP (Ex RNZN)
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
May these brave soldiers rest in peace and that their families will receive strength from our Lord.
Its sad news, but hopefully this tragic accident will open the eyes of the politians.
Its sad news, but hopefully this tragic accident will open the eyes of the politians.
There is a Spanish poem inscribed on a tablet near the monument at the peak of Cape Horn.
The poem is by Sara Vial and it seems appropriate for this occasion:
I am the albatross that awaits you
At the end of the world.
I am the forgotten soul of the dead seamen
Who sailed across Cape Horn
From all the seas of the Earth.
But, they have not died
In the fury of the waves.
Today they fly on my wings
Towards Eternity,
In the last crevice
Of the Antarctic winds.
The poem is by Sara Vial and it seems appropriate for this occasion:
I am the albatross that awaits you
At the end of the world.
I am the forgotten soul of the dead seamen
Who sailed across Cape Horn
From all the seas of the Earth.
But, they have not died
In the fury of the waves.
Today they fly on my wings
Towards Eternity,
In the last crevice
Of the Antarctic winds.
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Well, I hope in light of this tragedy this is a wake up call for governments around the world who allow thier militaries to get run down,and as a result put lives at risk.
There's a lot of backlash in the media from the relatives who are very angry that their loved ones were being sent to sea in an old and run down boat. I'd imagine the government are crossing their fingers that the recent decision to buy thirty or more year old aircraft won't have similar repercussions.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
The sad thing is the ARA San Juan was their navy's newest sub, and having had a MLU four years before, might have been their sub in the best condition.
On one hand, it is wrong IMO to refuse to deploy personnel without properly kitting out one's armed forces and maintaining the aircraft, vessels and vehicles. OTOH though, given Argentina's history and how often the armed forces seized power, oppressively ruled and/or started conflicts, then keeping the armed forces in a position where they could not engage in such behavior is rather understandable.
Add in the economic conditions...
Ananda
The Bunker Group
https://www.google.co.id/amp/mobile...s-snorkel-causing-short-circuit-idUSKBN1DR2B3
Snorkel is leaking..that's the latest statement from Argentine Navy in media. When I went to visit old Whiskey in Indonesian Navy that now a monuments, the veteran sailors of Whiskey said some time leaks can come out from snorkel..but usually it can be fixed on the site..
If that leakeage crated short circuit in batery..it must be significant one..if that so..why the skipper still decide to submerge ?
Snorkel is leaking..that's the latest statement from Argentine Navy in media. When I went to visit old Whiskey in Indonesian Navy that now a monuments, the veteran sailors of Whiskey said some time leaks can come out from snorkel..but usually it can be fixed on the site..
If that leakeage crated short circuit in batery..it must be significant one..if that so..why the skipper still decide to submerge ?
t68
Well-Known Member
I imagine it would have been weather considerations, I have no sea legs but have been across Bass strait in rough weather and it was no picnic, I'd hate to be in a submarine on the surface in rough weather.
Rough seas can be very bad for submarines, particularly modern submarines. They aren't designed to be on the surface, particularly during 6-8 m seas. They roll very badly, they are basically a cylinder.
Submarines have been lost in rough seas. Minerve is one example lost 1 hr away from port, she was never found.
So, Snorkel leaking > batteries short circuited > and then what's the most likely "sequences":
Excessive flooding > loss buoyancy & total power loss > beyond crushing depth ?
If they died by CO/CO2 intoxicating, at least they were unconscious. Hopelessly seeing the pressure hull buckling until crush....... Man, that's the most horrible way to die.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Unfortunately there will be no waking up in junior’s government. Haven’t seen any media reports here suggesting the government pay attention to aging kit as a result of this incident. Hardly a surprise given the apathy towards defence matters in Canada.
A new timeline released by the Argentine Armada detailing the last hours of contact with its missing submarine suggest the ARA San Juan was in trouble well before government requests for international assistance were issued.
The U.S. Navy has sent undersea search and rescue teams and two P-8A Poseidons aircraft to join the international search effort.
About 12:30 a.m. on Nov. 15, San Juan’s captain used a satellite phone to alert his Argentine Navy superiors the sub had taken on salt water through the snorkel – used to replenish air to the submerged sub. The water intrusion short-circuited the batteries in the submarine’s forward compartments, sparking either a fire or smoke, according to an Argentine Navy statement first reported by Argentina’s news station A24.
A CNN English translation of the message A24 broadcast is: “Seawater leaked in through the ventilation system into battery system No. 3, causing a short circuit and the early stages of a fire where the batteries were. The batteries on the external bow are out of service. We are currently submerging with a divided circuit. Nothing new to report regarding personnel. Will keep you informed.”
The captain reported the short circuit batteries were isolated, and San Juan would continue operating submerged using batteries in the rear portion of the ship, according to the Argentine Navy statement. San Juan is a German-built TR-1700 submarine with diesel and battery power. When submerged, the sub only uses battery power.
Nov. 15, 6 a.m. The captain sends a typed message repeating what he said on the satellite phone, per Argentine Navy procedure, according to the Argentine Navy.
7:30 a.m. The Argentine Navy receives the last contact from the sub, a message from the captain saying San Juan was underway, following the same course as planned, according to the Argentine Navy.
10:31 a.m. An undersea explosion was detected in roughly the same area San Juan was believed to be operating at this time, according to the Argentine Navy. A week later, search efforts focus on the area where this explosion was detected, after U.S. and international anti-nuclear proliferation experts determine the explosion was not nuclear and alert Argentine officials about the anomaly. Argentine Navy officials say until alerted by the U.S., they were not aware of the explosion.
Nov. 18 Responding to requests for assistance, the U.S. Navy sends undersea search and rescue teams to assist the growing international search efforts. The Navy search equipment includes four unmanned vehicles to scour underwater for clues to missing sub’s location. The recently established Unmanned Undersea Vehicle Squadron 1, based in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, brought to Argentina one Bluefin-12D (Deep) unmanned undersea vehicle (UUV) and three Iver 580 UUVs. Navy P-8A Poseidon aircraft also are sent to assist with the search.
Where's gf when you need his expertise
I am not completely sure, but isn't chlorine gas the end result of salt water coming into contact with a subs batteries?
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Agreed.
It is one of the potential outcomes, chlorine and hydrogen gasses being an outcome of electrolysis along with sodium hydroxide. Given that hydrogen gas can be produced/released as a normal part of recharging a non-sealed lead-acid battery, that could have led to a build up of hydrogen gas. Hydrogen plus oxygen and a spark or heat source could either ignite a fire or if in great enough a concentration be explosive.
Realistically, until the sub or wreck can be found we can only speculate about what happened, albeit sometimes educated speculation.
It's far from an unknown occurrence - USS Cochino was lost in similar-sounding circumstances I believe. We'll have to see if the wreck is located and recovered - I doubt that the Argentine government will have the funds or the political inclination to arrange a search for the remains of the vessel and crew once the international effort is stood down.