Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[ASSAIL]

Have to agree with Assail, none of the contenders are showing their hands in public.

But I think Navantia is a bit of an exception to the rule, whilst we don't know the finite details of their proposal, we do know that they are clearly basing the F5000 on the AWD, which is already a 'known' entity in the Australian environment, unlike the other two contenders.
Anyway, the guessing game continues, and will no doubt continue until we have an announcement.

I agree for Navantia, the obvious, known and existing features are there but we still don't know whether they have changed the propulsion system to be more in line with modern ASW practice. Sonar outfit, ship ASW weapons are still not known

I still feel that if the building schedule and ship system commonality are to be achieved Navantia must be the favourite. All three ships are close enough in capability that these other factors above will be the determining factor.......and political self interest, naturally.

 

[ASSAIL]

PM this am confirming Aegis for SEA 5000, also BMD upgrades for the DDGs as per the IIP also an ambiguous statment re BMD for the future frigates.

I'll post a link when available.

 

[hauritz]

PM this am confirming Aegis for SEA 5000, also BMD upgrades for the DDGs as per the IIP also an ambiguous statment re BMD for the future frigates.

I'll post a link when available.

If that is correct then I imagine that the F-5000 would almost be a dead set cert.

 

[t68]

PM this am confirming Aegis for SEA 5000, also BMD upgrades for the DDGs as per the IIP also an ambiguous statment re BMD for the future frigates.

I'll post a link when available.

Saw that in the paper today think it was the Sydney Morning Herald, thought it was a typo at first, would it be easier to build a flight II AWD and then build the ASW frigates, leaves more time for Sea 5000.

But found this on there web site,
New fleet of Australian frigates to be built for missile defence in face of rogue threat

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull will announce on Tuesday that the nine "future frigates", which the government wants to start building in 2020, will be equipped with an ambitious combination of the US-made Aegis combat system meshed with locally made SAAB Australia technology

 

[hauritz]

Saw that in the paper today think it was the Sydney Morning Herald, thought it was a typo at first, would it be easier to build a flight II AWD and then build the ASW frigates, leaves more time for Sea 5000.

But found this on there web site,
New fleet of Australian frigates to be built for missile defence in face of rogue threat

There is also this.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/...of-the-growing-threat-of-rogue-states-2017-10

The new Hobarts will eventually updated to use the same combat management system.

 

[t68]

Wonder where that leaves CEA Tech, out in the cold?

 

[Redlands18]

Just to be clear Adm Barrett said the announcement is about the Aegis system with SAAB interfaces being selected as the Core CMS. At this time it has not been decided to add a BMD capability to the Frigates but the potential is there.

No link avail, got the info straight off Sky News Australia TV.

 

[Redlands18]

Wonder where that leaves CEA Tech, out in the cold?

As far as i know they are still going to be CEAFAR Radars.

 

[weegee]

If all this is true and the RAN will have 12 Aegis equipped ships in the future. We are going to have one hell of a potent little navy! If anyone were to engage us in the future they would defiantly leave with a black eye. Great news for the RAN.

 

[John Newman]

As far as i know they are still going to be CEAFAR Radars.

I believe that is correct too.

The plan had always been to use CEAFAR as the radar system and the combat management system would be either AEGIS or the SAAB system, now it appears that the ships will have AEGIS and SAAB system interfaced together.

I think where people get confused is that they see AEGIS and the SPY radar system as one and the same, when they are not.

 

[aussienscale]

Joint media release from Defmin

https://www.minister.defence.gov.au...dia-release-new-approach-naval-combat-systems

Very interesting times indeed !

CEA still a go according to the above

Cheers

 

[hairyman]

Will we be installing the new interface system into the Hobart class ship presently under construction? If not, why not?

 

[hauritz]

Saw that in the paper today think it was the Sydney Morning Herald, thought it was a typo at first, would it be easier to build a flight II AWD and then build the ASW frigates, leaves more time for Sea 5000.
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It sounds more and more like SEA5000 will be a flight II AWD. Unless BAE or Fincantieri put together an absolutely outstanding proposal it is hard to imagine them getting up in this competition.

If it was all about ASW I would say that a case for those ships could be made ... but to add an Aegis combat system and still have the design ready by 2020 must be near impossible.

What I am wondering is whether or not the goal posts for this competition haven't been shifted. It seems like it started out as an ASW frigate but in the space of a year it has evolved more into an air-warfare destroyer.

It seems to be a more capable ship than the Hobart which makes me wonder how they intend cramming all of this into the same size hull.

 

[John Newman]

Will we be installing the new interface system into the Hobart class ship presently under construction? If not, why not?

I think you need to look at the announcement today as a roadmap for the future, it's not all going to happen today or tomorrow, baby steps!

As far as the AWD's are concerned, I would imagine that at some point in the future (after the proposed systems are developed), the three ships, when they go in for a refit or upgrade, will have the installation done then.

Apart from software, I'd also imagine that there might also be some hardware changes done too.

Again, I can't see that the last AWD will have it's construction stopped, or paused, maybe I'm wrong, but I think any upgrade to the AWD's is still a number of years away.

 

[spoz]

Will we be installing the new interface system into the Hobart class ship presently under construction? If not, why not?

Because Brisbane will shortly start trials, and Sydney’s combat system is essentially installed; while I suspect (with however no special knowledge) that the new interface is not yet fully developed - and the present ATI works.

 

[AegisFC]

Will we be installing the new interface system into the Hobart class ship presently under construction? If not, why not?

Because the Hobarts were ordered and designed with "pure Aegis" with ADS, Q-70 consoles and NTDS symbology. This announcement just sounds like the RAN wants CND (the "core" of Aegis, and something the USN has spun off as it's own thing for LCS and some other projects) with the SAAB system running the console network and providing whatever symbology they use.

This means that a console operator should be able to transfer between ships without too much difficulty.

 

[John Newman]

It sounds more and more like SEA5000 will be a flight II AWD. Unless BAE or Fincantieri put together an absolutely outstanding proposal it is hard to imagine them getting up in this competition.

If it was all about ASW I would say that a case for those ships could be made ... but to add an Aegis combat system and still have the design ready by 2020 must be near impossible.

What I am wondering is whether or not the goal posts for this competition haven't been shifted. It seems like it started out as an ASW frigate but in the space of a year it has evolved more into an air-warfare destroyer.

It seems to be a more capable ship than the Hobart which makes me wonder how they intend cramming all of this into the same size hull.

I disagree, I think all of the three contenders are in the same boat.

Again, lets not confuse AEGIS with the SPY radar system.

Regardless of which hull is chosen, they will all have CEAFAR as the ships radar (not SPY), they will have the just announced new combined AEGIS/SAAB combat management system.

If the Government had said they were dropping CAEFAR and were sticking with SPY as the radar, then yes I would agree that the Navantia design would have the lead (basically offer and updated AWD), but that's not what's happening.

Ultimately what we are going to see is the AWD's with SPY and AEGIS, plus the proposed SAAB interface, the Future Frigates with CAEFAR and the same AEGIS/SAAB combat management system.

What hasn't been mentioned, but I also assume is at the heart of the AEGIS decision is CEC.

I'd imagine that in the future an AWD and a Future Frigate working together will be able to share the data picture via CEC.

 

[hairyman]

It is all sounding promising for the future of the RAN. Now we can all hope that peace prevails at least until we start getting these F F on the water.

 

[oldsig127]

What hasn't been mentioned, but I also assume is at the heart of the AEGIS decision is CEC.

I'd imagine that in the future an AWD and a Future Frigate working together will be able to share the data picture via CEC.

Is mentioned in the Pacific 2017 supplement in the Oz this morning OR was mentioned by the PM in a speech telecast on ABC News24 this morning. Not sure which, but they are the only mainstream sources I've seen this morning. I think that CEC (or another form of networked cooperation) is so much a part of the way that our forces are now being structured that it's inconceivable that anything else would happen.

oldsig

 

[Boagrius]

Is mentioned in the Pacific 2017 supplement in the Oz this morning OR was mentioned by the PM in a speech telecast on ABC News24 this morning. Not sure which, but they are the only mainstream sources I've seen this morning. I think that CEC (or another form of networked cooperation) is so much a part of the way that our forces are now being structured that it's inconceivable that anything else would happen.

oldsig

Makes sense. Will be a tremendous leap in capability for the RAN, especially from an AAW perspective. With all of our major surface combatants potentially capable of lobbing SM2/3/6 using CEC, that's a lot more airspace that could potentially be locked down. Interesting times.