Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[tongan_yam]

Good pick up Gibbo,

I saw that too and through as much as well. A very public declaration that he's well aware that we are entering a time of shortage given the recent retirements and with both frigates heading into the FSU program shortly.

What are the options, keep all 4 IPV's till we're back up to normal fleet numbers?

 

[MrConservative]

Interesting comments in latest RNZN News from Chief of Navy...

"...All this work could not go on if it weren’t for the training delivered by MANAWANUI and our IPVs. The efforts of these ships is central to how we work as a Navy. With two ships in refit – we just may need more ships if we are going to keep this up in the future!"

Wonder if such a bold public (of sorts) statement suggests they might be changing their minds on getting rid of all 4 IPVs. I've always felt 2 should be retained. Once the 'new' fleet is in operation there will be no 'small' ships without the IPVs and that fleet will all be busy with operational taskings. On-shore training sims etc can only do so much in prepping sea-going officers & crew.

http://www.navy.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/navy-today/nt211.pdf

Are there any other Navies out there that have got 3 or 4 OPV’s that are going to be decommissioned in the next couple of years. Not too old or worn out, built last decade, simple ships with modest crew numbers, good sea-keeping, tailored for EEZ constabulary duties, operational instructions in English and of course cheap?

 

[John Fedup]

Probably not, if there were any to be had, junior would be ordering them for the RCN.

 

[40 deg south]

Are there any other Navies out there that have got 3 or 4 OPV’s that are going to be decommissioned in the next couple of years. Not too old or worn out, built last decade, simple ships with modest crew numbers, good sea-keeping, tailored for EEZ constabulary duties, operational instructions in English and of course cheap?

The RN's River class meets all those requirements except the last one. Given that new ones are being built as a BAE make-work project and the RN has no idea what to do with them, perhaps they would part with one of the Batch 1's at a bearable cost?

More realistically, the rumour that has floated around for the past year or so about leasing an offshore support vessel as a stop-gap replacement for the hydrographic and diving teams was presumably designed to address this hull shortage. Nothing has been heard for a while, so no idea if anything will come of it.

 

[40 deg south]

Chinese Navy task group visits New Zealand | Naval Today

Guns out as Chinese Navy ships dock in Auckland - NZ Herald

Funny how ships from some nuclear-armed navies are able to visit NZ without an outbreak of hand-wringing and moral posturing.

 

[40 deg south]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough...sel-blessed-for-success-in-monitoring-catches

Naiad Design

Not navy, but a key tool for inshore fisheries protection. I suspect vessels of this type are doing a lot of tasks that the IPVs were originally scoped for, but at far lower cost. And without MPI having to hand over any of their precious funding to an outside agency like the RNZN!

Naiad sounds an interesting company, with an impressive international client list in their niche of medium-large RHIBs. I'd never head of them until coming across this story.

 

[John Fedup]

Chinese Navy task group visits New Zealand | Naval Today

Guns out as Chinese Navy ships dock in Auckland - NZ Herald

Funny how ships from some nuclear-armed navies are able to visit NZ without an outbreak of hand-wringing and moral posturing.

The same hypocrisy from lefturds can be seen here in Canada as well.

 

[MrConservative]

The RN's River class meets all those requirements except the last one. Given that new ones are being built as a BAE make-work project and the RN has no idea what to do with them, perhaps they would part with one of the Batch 1's at a bearable cost?

You might be on to something.

Warships and Submarines: Decommissioning:Written question - 71203 - UK Parliament

More realistically, the rumour that has floated around for the past year or so about leasing an offshore support vessel as a stop-gap replacement for the hydrographic and diving teams was presumably designed to address this hull shortage. Nothing has been heard for a while, so no idea if anything will come of it.

River Class - Naval Technology

"The working deck can accommodate up to seven containers, enabling the ship to carry additional stores, workshops, mine countermeasure support containers, a diving recompression container or medical facilities. A heavy crane of 25t capacity is fitted to handle standard containers."

Pretty useful or at least more useful than an IPV or a leased OSV.

 

[Rob c]

Sorry cannot give a link for this from "News wire" so only a copy and paste

The frigate HMNZS Te Kaha is extending its deployment in Asian waters to support the United States Seventh Fleet after the fatal collision involving the USS Fitzgerald.
Seven US sailors were killed when the Fitzgerald, a guided-missile destroyer, and a Philippines container ship collided off the Japanese coast on June 17.
Te Kaha is near Japan as part of the Royal New Zealand Navy's Naval Task Group deployment throughout Asia and Defence Minister Mark Mitchell says the US has accepted the offer of help.
The frigate's role will be to contribute to the security and protection of the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group.
Announcing the deployment on Monday, Mr Mitchell extended the government's condolences.
"Our thoughts are very much with the bereaved families and the crew of the USS Fitzgerald after this terrible event," he said.
Mr Mitchell said the US was quick to help when the Kaikoura earthquake struck last November.
The USS Sampson, a sister ship of the Fitzgerald and which was in Auckland for the RNZN's 75th anniversary celebrations, was sent to the South Island to help with the recovery effor

 

[40 deg south]

Sorry cannot give a link for this from "News wire" so only a copy and paste

The frigate HMNZS Te Kaha is extending its deployment in Asian waters to support the United States Seventh Fleet after the fatal collision involving the USS Fitzgerald.
Seven US sailors were killed when the Fitzgerald, a guided-missile destroyer, and a Philippines container ship collided off the Japanese coast on June 17.
Te Kaha is near Japan as part of the Royal New Zealand Navy's Naval Task Group deployment throughout Asia and Defence Minister Mark Mitchell says the US has accepted the offer of help.
The frigate's role will be to contribute to the security and protection of the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group.
Announcing the deployment on Monday, Mr Mitchell extended the government's condolences.
"Our thoughts are very much with the bereaved families and the crew of the USS Fitzgerald after this terrible event," he said.
Mr Mitchell said the US was quick to help when the Kaikoura earthquake struck last November.
The USS Sampson, a sister ship of the Fitzgerald and which was in Auckland for the RNZN's 75th anniversary celebrations, was sent to the South Island to help with the recovery effor

Certainly a sign that both sides are prepared to work on the defence relationship - NZ for offering assistance and the US for accepting. Not sure the mighty Te Kaha's 8 (?) original Sea Sparrows will be a crucial factor in the defensive shield, but will be a great training opportunity.

Does anyone know when the first kiwi ANZAC heads to Vancouver for the upgrade?

 

[recce.k1]

Are there any other Navies out there that have got 3 or 4 OPV’s that are going to be decommissioned in the next couple of years. Not too old or worn out, built last decade, simple ships with modest crew numbers, good sea-keeping, tailored for EEZ constabulary duties, operational instructions in English and of course cheap?

Trouble is OPV's won't cover the wider crewing skillsets of that found on a Frigate (and it's not only potentially losing skilled personnel across the branches eg weapons and engineering etc, it's also the time factor to train up new personnel from scratch when the refitted ships return to service - that could take years! Plus the disparity in numbers crewing wise).

With (soon to be) two ships in refit, I presume the CN is talking about the two ANZAC Frigates and not simply the first one to which from memory was Te Mana either at the end of this year or early next year, a possible answer actually lies across the Tasman (and if so I hope the NZDF can convince the government).

The RAN have just decommissioned FFG 03 (HMAS Sydney), although according to Wiki she only last month she was towed to WA for scrapping. She was paid off in 2015 and presumably her fittings were removed not long after, which is a shame (for us potentially) as she was the first of the FFG's upgraded as part of the FFG Upgrade project and packed some lethal capabilities (and I hazard a guess at that stage of things for the RNZN our ANZAC FSU (Frigate Systems Upgrade - combat systems etc) was only signed of in 2014, probably not the time for the RNZN to be asking government to lease Sydney, especially as the FSU project delays weren't known at that time?

So to today I wonder if that leaves the RNZN the potential opportunity to lease FFG 04 (HMAS Darwin) shortly ... her replacement the AWD HMAS Hobart is being handed over to the RAN later this year! How do we force the government's hand in this in lieu of the skillset shortages that will occur (alongside the decommissioning of the AOR later this year and the diving and mine counter-measures support ship HMNZS Manawanui next year)?

[Now here comes a cunning plan ] ...

The RAN will decommission FFG's 05 and 06 in the next 2-3 years I believe (?) and Poland has expressed an interest in acquiring them apparently. Now imagine if the NZG showed an interest and acquired (or leased) them as RNZN Frigates 3 + 4 ... due to the heightened Asia-Pacific security situation of course and in order to credibly contribute to the defence of NZ, it's South Pacific interests, and collective regional defence responsibilities. (I'm sure the Oz Govt would appreciate an additional two capable vessels in this part of the world).

The RNZN wins - more ships and time at sea, personnel skillsets maintained and enhanced. The Government wins on the foreign affairs front (especially with the Australians, the US, Singapore (FPDA), Japan etc).

Remember the RNZN believes it requires 6 Frigates (!) to maintain a credible blue water presence (how on earth they are expected to undertake simple escorting tasks with only 2 Frigates to maintain NZ's SLOC's, let alone deploy them to a trouble-spot is untenable logic in this day and age). FFG's 05 & 06 were commissioned in the early 1990's (and were recently upgraded - FFG UP), knowing NZ and its number 8 wire mentality we could get another 10 or so years of life out of them. They would be replaced in the 2030's as part of the RNZN ANZAC Frigate replacement programme. Remember current NZDF Defence Capability out to 2030 is (currently) planned on spending 1% of GDP on defence .... a small % increase would allow for the FFG lease/buy (and replacement in the 2030's).

The Government is forecasting surpluses so it's not like its unaffordable at the moment! Policy wise the DWP does highlight the changing military balance in the Asia-Pacific region, and it's the governments prerogative to adjust the defence capability plan accordingly.

Now as for the IPV's - we see their value with HMNZS Hawea deployed to Fiji. They are capable vessels. Now if the future of EEZ patrols lies with the OPV's instead, it would make more sense to retain the IPV's for the roles of Harbour Defence/Inshore/Coastal Defence including mine counter measures and underwater ISR (ASW detection) ....

 

[Novascotiaboy]

A decent proposal but so many obstacles exist for this to happen. Crewing wouldn't be an issue. Weapons types and systems would be the challenge as SM2, Harpoon, ESSM and 76 mm Oto Melara are not in NZ service. Darwin is currently 33 years old the other two have been asked for by Poland.

If I may suggest that during the refits of the two NZ ANZAC's here in Canada that crew be seconded to serve on Aussie ANZAC's. This would help maintain crew training and morale. It would expose them to newer systems and broaden inter nation relationships.

The opportunity to "lease" one or more of the ex RN Clydes would allow constabulary functions and a hull for the Littoral specialists until the LOSC is delivered. Neither proposal is optimal but the idea of no hulls is not an option. Crew needs sea time.

As far as seeing a six frigate fleet that idea has truly sailed. Hopefully during the next frigate purchase a minimum of three hulls will be considered but that's a way off yet.

If global affairs continue to erode and a serious shooting war begins with implications on sea borne trade the need for ocean going escorts will be realized by all countries. Every nation depends upon the import and export of products carried by ship. Like Canada, NZ has chosen to spend a lot of $$$$ upgrading 20 year old hulls and systems instead of selling them on as is and acquiring new ships now. Instead of the half a billion or more to upgrade the ANZAC's today three new hulls should have been acquired from a Korean yard. This would have allowed a one for one replacement of the existing with new hulls allowing phase out without a gap. The first new hull would commission thus allowing three hulls. Upon delivery of the second new hull the first of the ANZAC's would be paid off and the delivery of the third would see the final disposition of the remaining ANZAC. A country like the Philippines would jump at the chance of adding these two well kept vessels with only 25 years of use. Compared to the 50 year old Hamiltons from the USCG they would be state of the art.

The Dutch figured this out long ago. Canada gets industrial benefits and "votes" for the maintenance spent on maintaining its old kit. 50 plus year old Sea Kings, 37 year old P3's not to mention our retired E model C130's.

Just think what could have been done if the $$$$ were spent more wisely.

Now was the time but that opportunity has passed.

Ngati has suggested suitable Korean options in the past that realistically could have happened. The economics of tagging onto an existing build would have also lessened costs for both parties.

 

[ngatimozart]

Sorry cannot give a link for this from "News wire" so only a copy and paste

The frigate HMNZS Te Kaha is extending its deployment in Asian waters to support the United States Seventh Fleet after the fatal collision involving the USS Fitzgerald.
Seven US sailors were killed when the Fitzgerald, a guided-missile destroyer, and a Philippines container ship collided off the Japanese coast on June 17.
Te Kaha is near Japan as part of the Royal New Zealand Navy's Naval Task Group deployment throughout Asia and Defence Minister Mark Mitchell says the US has accepted the offer of help.
The frigate's role will be to contribute to the security and protection of the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group.
Announcing the deployment on Monday, Mr Mitchell extended the government's condolences.
"Our thoughts are very much with the bereaved families and the crew of the USS Fitzgerald after this terrible event," he said.
Mr Mitchell said the US was quick to help when the Kaikoura earthquake struck last November.
The USS Sampson, a sister ship of the Fitzgerald and which was in Auckland for the RNZN's 75th anniversary celebrations, was sent to the South Island to help with the recovery effor

Ministers news release.
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/navy-frigate-help-out-after-us-destroyer-collision

 

[MrConservative]

Trouble is OPV's won't cover the wider crewing skillsets of that found on a Frigate (and it's not only potentially losing skilled personnel across the branches eg weapons and engineering etc, it's also the time factor to train up new personnel from scratch when the refitted ships return to service - that could take years! Plus the disparity in numbers crewing wise).

Yes that is very true with respect to the Anzacs however I was thinking along the lines of an OPV as that is what is required for the EZZ patrolling taskings and we have a huge gap right there that the IPV's are not covering - plus there are cheaper civilian options for close inshore stuff. The Batch 1 Rivers as raised by 40 South are interesting as there are 4 that will be decommed before 2020 in fact one is being paid off this year. That vessel has the capability do undertake or mothership the Dive /MCM / Survey role and cover the gap of the Manawanui decommed next february until the LOSV arrives - fact it can stay in the fleet after that and swing roles. The other three OPV's (one of which the Clyde has a hanger) can uptake the roles that are undertaken by the IPV's so we have vessels with greater range and patrol persistence that we require - that the IPV's are not quite delivering.

I note that the Batch 1's were sold by BAE to the UK Govt in 2012 for GBP39m (NZD68m) for all four. They are only just a tad older than our Protector fleet, which means when we eventually look to replace the overall OPV fleet in the 2030's they would enable a sequenced single class replacement. If the Poms paid less than 10m sterling for them 5 years ago even with a refit and refresh one would not be paying anymore.

With (soon to be) two ships in refit, I presume the CN is talking about the two ANZAC Frigates and not simply the first one to which from memory was Te Mana either at the end of this year or early next year, a possible answer actually lies across the Tasman (and if so I hope the NZDF can convince the government).

The RAN have just decommissioned FFG 03 (HMAS Sydney), although according to Wiki she only last month she was towed to WA for scrapping. She was paid off in 2015 and presumably her fittings were removed not long after, which is a shame (for us potentially) as she was the first of the FFG's upgraded as part of the FFG Upgrade project and packed some lethal capabilities (and I hazard a guess at that stage of things for the RNZN our ANZAC FSU (Frigate Systems Upgrade - combat systems etc) was only signed of in 2014, probably not the time for the RNZN to be asking government to lease Sydney, especially as the FSU project delays weren't known at that time?

So to today I wonder if that leaves the RNZN the potential opportunity to lease FFG 04 (HMAS Darwin) shortly ... her replacement the AWD HMAS Hobart is being handed over to the RAN later this year! How do we force the government's hand in this in lieu of the skillset shortages that will occur (alongside the decommissioning of the AOR later this year and the diving and mine counter-measures support ship HMNZS Manawanui next year)?

I think that reality is forcing their hand. Things have a habit of becoming real. :shudder

I have not really paid attention to the RAN's OHP decommissioning tempo or what they are doing to them. Are they cross decking anything to the Hobarts?

[Now here comes a cunning plan ] ...

The RAN will decommission FFG's 05 and 06 in the next 2-3 years I believe (?) and Poland has expressed an interest in acquiring them apparently. Now imagine if the NZG showed an interest and acquired (or leased) them as RNZN Frigates 3 + 4 ... due to the heightened Asia-Pacific security situation of course and in order to credibly contribute to the defence of NZ, it's South Pacific interests, and collective regional defence responsibilities. (I'm sure the Oz Govt would appreciate an additional two capable vessels in this part of the world).

The RNZN wins - more ships and time at sea, personnel skillsets maintained and enhanced. The Government wins on the foreign affairs front (especially with the Australians, the US, Singapore (FPDA), Japan etc).

Your idea is far far better than the status quo which is to not to have a Anzac replacement in the water for another 15 years. Which means on a typical build and commissioning tempo probably not a 3rd Frigate (if that happens) for another 18 years and a 4th probably 20 years away.

Lets be blunt - it is a Disneyland approach national security to think that two Frigates will be enough over the next couple of decades for a nation with the longest SLOC and 99% of trade by sea. I sometimes wonder if Dougal from Father Ted dreamt up the RNZN two frigate policy.

Remember the RNZN believes it requires 6 Frigates (!) to maintain a credible blue water presence (how on earth they are expected to undertake simple escorting tasks with only 2 Frigates to maintain NZ's SLOC's, let alone deploy them to a trouble-spot is untenable logic in this day and age). FFG's 05 & 06 were commissioned in the early 1990's (and were recently upgraded - FFG UP), knowing NZ and its number 8 wire mentality we could get another 10 or so years of life out of them. They would be replaced in the 2030's as part of the RNZN ANZAC Frigate replacement programme. Remember current NZDF Defence Capability out to 2030 is (currently) planned on spending 1% of GDP on defence .... a small % increase would allow for the FFG lease/buy (and replacement in the 2030's).

The Government is forecasting surpluses so it's not like its unaffordable at the moment! Policy wise the DWP does highlight the changing military balance in the Asia-Pacific region, and it's the governments prerogative to adjust the defence capability plan accordingly.

If we could get into the three or four fleet frigate business quickly it would help everyone and not just ourselves. Necessity is the mother of invention. Necessity is raring its ugly head.

We know that the first couple of the RAN Anzacs are due to be decommed circa mid 20's - years before our ones are to depart the scene but their overall ANZAC fleet will stay in service into the mid 2030's at least about when both of ours will depart. It does take 5-6 years to generate an operational Frigate crew. A couple of leased or 'borrowed' RAN Adelaides to generate a four frigate - four crew capability in an interim 5-7 year period with a view to buying the first couple of the available RAN Anzacs is another consideration.

There is no money to go off and buy a couple of new billion dollar frigates in the next few years but their should be money go down that path.

Now as for the IPV's - we see their value with HMNZS Hawea deployed to Fiji. They are capable vessels. Now if the future of EEZ patrols lies with the OPV's instead, it would make more sense to retain the IPV's for the roles of Harbour Defence/Inshore/Coastal Defence including mine counter measures and underwater ISR (ASW detection) ....

Another possibility and an elegant solution is that the sale of the four IPV's would help to cover a potential four River Class Batch 1's being bought from the RN. The Manawanui crew goes to the first vessel to maintain the Dive/MCM/Survey capability and the other three IPV crews go to across to the three Batch 1's in the patrol role. The '4th' IPV crew regenerated to prepare for the SOPV arrival and the VR purposed into taking over the first River when the LOSV arrives as their dedicated vessel so as to be able to generate crews for seasonal EEZ patrols and a back-up MCM/Survey platform.

 

[Redlands18]

NZ getting the last 2 FFGs is not the dumbest idea I've heard on here a couple of questions though. How easy would they be to convert the MK 41 VLS and associated systems to firing the CAMM Missiles? And would you retain the MK 13s and get Standard Missiles.
A hot transfer would certainly be possible. It would all come back though to getting clearance from the Yanks. They could also get all remaining 76mm Ammo into the bargain as Australia would have no further use unless we are getting 76mm guns on the new Frigates.

 

[MrConservative]

NZ getting the last 2 FFGs is not the dumbest idea I've heard on here a couple of questions though.

It certainly isn't the dumbest idea. Recce has always come up with some gems over the years worth pondering.

It has been scoped before back in 1997. Two ex-USN FFG-7s were an option that the Shipley Govt looked at instead of the 3rd Anzac option. At the time the cost of running the four frigates was more than what they wanted to pay.

Comparison of Annual Operating Costs for Mixed and ANZAC Fleets (1997 NZ$ million) (Averaged over five years)

2 ANZAC & 2 FFG 7 - $69.330 million
4 ANZAC - $58.040 million
3 ANZAC - $43.530 million

(Source: Defence Assessment Paper, Office of the Minister of Defence, Wellington, 17 September 1997, p. 5. Paper attached to ERD (97) 18.

How easy would they be to convert the MK 41 VLS and associated systems to firing the CAMM Missiles? And would you retain the MK 13s and get Standard Missiles.
A hot transfer would certainly be possible. It would all come back though to getting clearance from the Yanks. They could also get all remaining 76mm Ammo into the bargain as Australia would have no further use unless we are getting 76mm guns on the new Frigates.

As it is an interim vessel wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to retain ESSM in situ and simply work in with the RAN in support of it as part of the acquisition or lease package?

I would be surprised if the Yanks would not look favourably on it.

 

[StingrayOZ]

It certainly isn't the dumbest idea. Recce has always come up with some gems over the years worth pondering.

It has been scoped before back in 1997. Two ex-USN FFG-7s were an option that the Shipley Govt looked at instead of the 3rd Anzac option. At the time the cost of running the four frigates was more than what they wanted to pay.

These days there wouldn't be much in it. I think Volk has said something previously regarding the operating costs of the two. Obviously you would keep them as is, after the FFG up they are reasonable ships for a frigate.

Hobarts have all new weapons and sensors, in theory nothing needs to be removed from the FFG's for the Hobarts. If we were disposing of them, obviously we would strip them right out.

You would want to just keep load load in your own ESSM. CAMM is fine for future stuff, but you don't want to have to go putting/intergrating it into an FFG.

 

[John Newman]

These days there wouldn't be much in it. I think Volk has said something previously regarding the operating costs of the two. Obviously you would keep them as is, after the FFG up they are reasonable ships for a frigate.

Hobarts have all new weapons and sensors, in theory nothing needs to be removed from the FFG's for the Hobarts. If we were disposing of them, obviously we would strip them right out.

You would want to just keep load load in your own ESSM. CAMM is fine for future stuff, but you don't want to have to go putting/intergrating it into an FFG.

If such a thing was to happen, the NZG would still be up for the purchase of new missiles.

I remember reading a while ago that the SM-2's on the FFG's were going to be modified from rail launch to VLS launch for use on the AWD's. Harpoon would also be removed, and probably the MU-90 torpedo's too.

I would also imagine that the ESSM rounds would also be removed and plus Phalanx too.

Apart from what I've mentioned above, I wouldn't imagine that anything else would be stripped from the hulls.

 

[Lucasnz]

While I would support the replacement of the IPV with ex RN OPV (due to there age) and the purchase of a common class of vessel, as suggested, going forward; the acquisitions of additional second hand frigates (especially OHP) is a different matter.

The RNZN has an excellent track record and maintaining its ships but having served on Southland for a short stint of time and been part of the recommissioning crew of Wellington I would not recommend the acquisition of second hand frigates. Southland was so full of rust by the time I got to her (in the last 5 years of active service) that a civilian surveyor would have in all likehood condemned the ship on the spot. The Aussies had similar issues with the LST's they acquired from the USN.

The RNZN has got the best use out of a ship when they have acquired them second hand relatively young at around 10 years of age.

As an afterthought it seems to me that 4 Frigates are no longer required. Rather 3 frigates and an improved capabilities in terms of the OPV and Canterbury replacement are required long term.

 

[alexsa]

If such a thing was to happen, the NZG would still be up for the purchase of new missiles.

I remember reading a while ago that the SM-2's on the FFG's were going to be modified from rail launch to VLS launch for use on the AWD's. Harpoon would also be removed, and probably the MU-90 torpedo's too.

I would also imagine that the ESSM rounds would also be removed and plus Phalanx too.

Apart from what I've mentioned above, I wouldn't imagine that anything else would be stripped from the hulls.

Just as a side issue, don't forget the RAN is moving toward ESSM Block 2 and new rounds may be a better option than remanufacturing the old ones. The SM2 is a different issue but this is where the US relationship would have to come in. Ditto if you wanted Harpoon.


On the TT tubes, if on sold I suspect these would stay for those units noting many of the options for the future frigate have them internal and we have the tubes off the first 3 or 4 FFG plus those that will come off the ANZAC Class.


CIWS I suspect will be uplifted as these form part of the pool being upgraded for newer vessels.


Nulka .... not sure


But ............ do you really think it will happen? Certainly a lot of advantages, not lease of which you could negotiate a range of stores and spares held in Australia but I suspect it wouel not get up.