Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[gf0012-aust]

The French build of the Mistral is not the same as it was a tie up between Russia and France for a military build.

the russian builds were awful, one of the engineers who inspected them as part of the eval said that the top deck almost qualified to have a mezzanine on it.

so really basic dimension QA issues were visible and not addressed until well down the track

so there was some surprise as the french are not normally tardy

 

[40 deg south]

Is it more about bad luck or that its called Aotearoa and not New Zealand? NZDF and Navy are fine with the new name end of story.

There is an internet legend that Hitler overturned plans to name a vessel the Deutschland on the grounds that if it were sunk/damaged it would be a blow to German morale.

My only reservation about the Aotearoa name is how unpronounceable it will be outside of Polynesia.

 

[CJR]

There is an internet legend that Hitler overturned plans to name a vessel the Deutschland on the grounds that if it were sunk/damaged it would be a blow to German morale.

Well, the Panzerschiff Deutschland was renamed to Lutzow in 1940, supposedly for that very reason (with the choice of new name having an added bonus in inducing confusion between the Panzerschiff and a never completed cruiser intended to take the same name), so that ain't a myth.

 

[kiwipatriot69]

Probably no more confusing than Australia using aboriginal names for their navy vessels& in the same token, just as relevant to our respective cultures. I like it, its unique to NZ. No doubt she will get a thorough workout during her career for others to familiarize themselves with the name , and its translation.

 

[MrConservative]

One of the interesting issues that is emerging is the potential leasing of a civilian vessel for at least 2 years between the decommissioning of the Manawanui next February and the arrival of the LOSV.

 

[kiwipatriot69]

One of the interesting issues that is emerging is the potential leasing of a civilian vessel for at least 2 years between the decommissioning of the Manawanui next February and the arrival of the LOSV.

Good to hear that. Has there been times in RNZN history where we have had such a capability gap timewise between a decommissioning of a ship and its replacement?

 

[Gibbo]

Good to hear that. Has there been times in Rnzn history where we have had such a capability gap timewise between a decommisioning of a ship and its replacement?

Same is happening with Endeavour replacement... I don't understand why they do this... at least in Manawanui's case there might be a stop-gap, but to my simplistic way of thinking it seems more like poor project planning.

 

[ngatimozart]

Same is happening with Endeavour replacement... I don't understand why they do this... at least in Manawanui's case there might be a stop-gap, but to my simplistic way of thinking it seems more like poor project planning.

It's not poor project planning on the part of NZDF and the Ministry. The problems / delays occur at Cabinet level.

 

[MrConservative]

Good to hear that. Has there been times in Rnzn history where we have had such a capability gap timewise between a decommisioning of a ship and its replacement?

It is only at the discussion phase. Using the OPV's is a stopgap consideration in the short term but if the LOSV takes longer than envisaged a lease is a possibility.

 

[Rob c]

It's not poor project planning on the part of NZDF and the Ministry. The problems / delays occur at Cabinet level.

Ngati I would have really highlighted 'The problems / delays occur at Cabinet level" As the navy has probability been asking for the ship for years

 

[Novascotiaboy]

To me this makes great sense as it gives the RNZN the ability to refine operations and implement changes to the final build in order to reduce the learning curve. So many platforms currently available on the open market due to the downturn in the oil sector. Let's hope this happens sooner rather than later.

 

[Lgjonesxjs]

40 Degree South

The final cost for the hopefully six A/OPS vessels is going to be too damn much for what we are going to get. I have no doubt that they will be well built and functional , as I was on the assembly hall floor in February as components were coming together, but the costs are not going to be competitive for sny export opportunities.

The A/OPS design is loosely based upon the Norwegian Svarlbad Coast Guard vessel. Going to a Norwegian yard for a one off vessel would be more cost effective as the steel work would likely be completed in Romania and fitting out completed in the Norwegian yard. The final quality of Norwegian PSV's IMHO is superior to others operating from Halifax. Irving is (was) capable of building similar vessels including the Atlantic Hawk and Atlantic Condor yet since the yard upgrades have chosen to have their new hulls built in Romania for their own sister company Atlantic Towing. These new vessels will be operating out of St. John's Newfoundland in support of the oil and gas industry in the Grand Banks.

Although not the same sea conditions as your southern ocean the waters off northern Norway is still cold and unforgiving. Plans already exist and technology upgrades could allow crew reduction to reduce thru life costs. Helicopter capable for up to NHI 90 and mounting a 57 mm cannon she offers much as an existing design for your third OPV.

A Svalbard based design may be be a little large at around 6ktons but been an ice breaker class reduces our dependence on having the Americans cut a passage for HM Aotearoa. on resupply missions to Antarctica. She would also give us more flexibility regarding HADR etc due to that greater capacity. One drawback would be top speed, 16 knots may be a little slow for an Osp.

 

[Novascotiaboy]

Ice strengthening and hull form will impact speed of a vessel needing to operate in ice. The ability to chase a vessel in southern waters is negated by the ability to embark and support rotary assets. Be they manned or unmanned either will have a higher speed than any vessel on the water. The RPAS will provide surveillance only but a manned helicopter can land a boarding party to seize the vessel.

A 6000 ton vessel will enable endurance and sea keeping qualities unavailable in smaller hulls. At 4000 km South of NZ any SOPV will need long legs. Yes she can be refuelled by HMNZS Aotearoa but not every deployment South will see the AOR being available.

Is there a need for a full fledged ice breaker in NZ service, particularly as a naval vessel? Ice strengthened such as the Svalbard or the Harry Dewolfe class would certainly be more than capable of serving the needs of the RNZN.

 

[40 deg south]

Well, the Panzerschiff Deutschland was renamed to Lutzow in 1940, supposedly for that very reason (with the choice of new name having an added bonus in inducing confusion between the Panzerschiff and a never completed cruiser intended to take the same name), so that ain't a myth.

A belated thanks to CJR for filling in this gap in my knowledge.

 

[40 deg south]

PM doubts Navy caught by 'Fat Leonard' - Politics - NZ Herald News

The Royal New Zealand Navy paid just over $710,000 to Francis's company Glenn Defence Marine Asia (GDMA) between May 2007 to December 2011 "for specific ship visits in South East Asia", a Navy spokesman told the Herald.

The services included tugs, provision of buses and rubbish collection which the spokesman said were routinely acquired for most port visits.

For those who haven't followed this entertaining saga, 'Fat Leonard' was the owner of Singapore-based GDMA, who offered kickbacks and other inducements to US Navy officers who used GDMA. Fat Leonard then mightily overcharged the US taxpayer for the services provided, upholding an ancient tradition among naval providores.

A rather overheated description here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Leonard_scandal

 

[40 deg south]

New Zealand Navy studying ‘liquid Himalayas’ | Naval Today

Another unusual mission for the Otago.

Oh buoy! Southern Hemisphere's largest wave recorded by Kiwi scientists | Stuff.co.nz

An update on the monitoring buoy placed by RNZN between NZ and Antarctica. Yep, it turns out that the waves down there can get pretty big!

 

[40 deg south]

https://twitter.com/hashtag/ExJointWaka?src=hash

This links to a good video of an NH90 being removed from the hanger and prepared for flight on board Canterbury. Only seen this for a Seasprite previously.

 

[ngatimozart]

PM doubts Navy caught by 'Fat Leonard' - Politics - NZ Herald News



For those who haven't followed this entertaining saga, 'Fat Leonard' was the owner of Singapore-based GDMA, who offered kickbacks and other inducements to US Navy officers who used GDMA. Fat Leonard then mightily overcharged the US taxpayer for the services provided, upholding an ancient tradition among naval providores.

A USN one star has been jailed for 18 months because he lied to investigators over his involvement with Fat Leonard. There have been quite a few USN officers for whom this scandal has been career killers.

US Navy admiral sentenced to 18 months in 'Fat Leonard' bribery scandal

 

[Novascotiaboy]

Janes is reporting problems with the Littoral Support Ship program. I don't have access for the whole article and information is limited. Any thoughts among those here?

New Zealand warns of likely downgrade to its Littoral Operations Support Capability programme | Jane's 360

 

[MrConservative]

Janes is reporting problems with the Littoral Support Ship program. I don't have access for the whole article and information is limited. Any thoughts among those here?

New Zealand warns of likely downgrade to its Littoral Operations Support Capability programme | Jane's 360

Nothing about downgrade I have heard that maybe sheer speculation - that an expeditionary LW capability is still sought after and will go ahead was the last enquiry I made - though there has been some people whinging about basing the platform on a Offshore Support Ship and not having an integrated hanger and could do with greater stores capacity.

The Manawanui is going to be decommissioned next February is the official word - and there is gap for at least 2 years which has also been a worry. Scuttlebutt about an interim vessel to tide them over. That could be colouring things.