Double OMG & the so called Gavin has been resurrected.OMG, Gavin alert ....
New Zealand Army
- Thread starter Whiskyjack
- Start date
-
- Tags
- army artilery gunner new zealand sas
Novascotiaboy
Active Member
I had never heard that name for the M113 before today and the response from you both means I may have struck a nerve. Oops. Sorry.
No not a nerve Nova there was a person who tried to push the Gavin idea by promoting himself as an Armoured expert who deployed operationally in Iraq turned out he was nothing more than a Walter mitty sorry mate I've got no time for anything that's even remotely tied to that name {Gavin} or person.
CD
t68
Well-Known Member
Sparky sparks if memory serves right.
The sad thing is he hijacked the name of James Gavin, a genuine hero, leader and innovator who rose up through the ranks to command the 82nd Airborne Division by the time of Operation market Garden. Used to Crew M-113s myself and cannot see what these fanboi losers are raving about as they were fun to dive but seriously outdated by the 90s, let alone now.
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
If Nz was to go down an upgrade path with the Lav 3 , wouldnt it prove just as expensive as replacing them ,to do say the Lav 6.0 solution? Wouldnt want us facing then same problems Australia had with upgrading the M113, with the delays entry in to service ect. Would a tracked solution like Singapore's Bionix AFV be a better pick? Airlift too must be addressed in either case, IMHO.
Not really because any MLU would not change the complete vehicle. Add-on armour packs could be included plus such items as power, pack, drive train, systems, armament upgrades etc. The tracked solution is more expensive to acquire, operate and maintain. The USMC have found that a wheeled vehicle is better with amphib vessels than tracked vessels, moves quicker, costs less, easier and far quicker to fix battlefield damage to wheels than tracks. That is why they are replacing their tracked AAAV-7s with wheeled vehicles.
My understanding of the options in regard to the LAV 3 are that 3 options are being looked at which are.
Replace the fleet with a smaller number of vehicals.
Replace some of the fleet and upgrade some of the LAV3s
Upgrade the required amount of LAV3s
In all cases surplus LAVs are to be sold
I don't think any decision has been made at this time, but I would imagine that a basic understanding would have been arrived at in regard to how the options would fit in with the FAMC.
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Unfortunate that the purchase went the way it did with a lack of variations in the Lav for other roles. Or that it cost so much that we scrapped any notion for a third frigate or ACF. Hopefully lessons learned, a costly exersize we cant afford to make again. Trump talks to our Prime Minister on defence and other issues today, I m hoping we get a dressing down from him that will influence our posture on defence spending
kiwi in exile
Active Member
Semi-related:
Fiji buys Aussie Bushmasters for peacekeeping - CONTACT magazine
These will go along nicely with all there new russian supplied arms.
Fiji buys Aussie Bushmasters for peacekeeping - CONTACT magazine
These will go along nicely with all there new russian supplied arms.
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
maybe we could sell them some of our Lav 3, though i think the price may be a bit high...
MARS-L being rolled out
First units being trained on the new rifle good to see the troops getting there hands on them.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new...efence-force-begins-weapons-training-new-guns
First units being trained on the new rifle good to see the troops getting there hands on them.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new...efence-force-begins-weapons-training-new-guns
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Does the new rifle represent a significant improvement on stopping power though over the steyr,given that it still is 5.56 ammo is it not?
Fires a significantly heaver bullet (I think used by special forces in other countries ) with better hitting power at range. I would like to go for something even heavier , but being only a small user we have to fall in line until the major users change. I think it can still use standard ammo.
Its no different in stopping power than the IW Steyr it fires the same types of ammunition ie SS109 - Mk 262 Mod 1 what is does provide is a system with open architecture (can fit all types of current & new sighting systems UGL etc) this is where the General issue Steyr was deficient the 1.5 power sight & attaching weapon ancillaries on the weapon.
It has been quoted that the army are using new ammo, not standard NATO
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...ttle-rifle-overview-mars-llso-chris-bartocci/
The NZDF is using, instead of a NATO standard cartridge or any of the more recent improved 5.56 loads like M855A1, the Mk. 262 Mod. 1 round designed for the US SOCOM. Mk. 262 is a very effective load with additional range versus other 5.56mm loads, although it also comes with higher peak pressure and more limited hard target penetration. So as the current Steyr appears to use the same MK262 , no difference if this is the case
Rob, MK262 Mod 1 is not NATO standard of which we have used in Afghanistan with the current IW Steyr NZDF will use SS109 & F1 5.56mm as the current training round until we exhaust all stocks, NZDF is after a 5.56mm round with similar characteristics as Mk 262 ie 77 grain for Non operational training needs & non kinetic deployments. It always comes down to cost.
Thanks for that, how long have they had the MK 292 for operational use? I assume that Afghanistan may have been the catalyst for this.
Mk 262 was only introduced for the last couple of years of OP Crib, units can only get it when they have been stood up to do OLOC training @ $1.70 ish per round and being held by JFHQ its controlled very tightly.
CD