John Fedup
The Bunker Group
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Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) News and Discussions
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John Fedup
The Bunker Group
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- #342
It will be interesting to learn the actual number of airframes. Vendors were to quote based on capability requirements (the previous number specified used to be 17 planes). Also, all units are to be delivered and operational by 2023 which seems awfully long for an aircraft already in service with several allies.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
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The Liberals expect the FWSAR announcement will relieve some of the pressure regarding their C-F fighter plan. I don't think that will be the case. Another link can remind us about what a F-up junior really is.
http://www.hilltimes.com/2016/12/07...morandum-march-despite-election-promise/90257
http://www.hilltimes.com/2016/12/07...morandum-march-despite-election-promise/90257
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
As the learned philosopher Sir Mick Jagger observed
The advantages of the C-27J are supposedly being more rugged, larger diameter fuselage for outsize loads and faster. Only the latter is any significance in the FWSAR role, and presumably that wasn't enough to offset the (allegedly) much higher cost.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
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- #345
Same glass cockpit, pallets, and engines as our C-130Js and more range were additional C-27Js advantages. The actual numbers will be interesting.
Novascotiaboy
Active Member
From 19 dedicated aircraft for SAR in Canada down to 16 new C295. I would have thought that additional aircraft would have been acquired to allow basing in Newfoundland at least. Will be interesting to see the distribution plan.
Canada selects Airbus C295W for Fixed-Wing Search and Rescue - Airbus Military C295Airbus Military C295
Canada selects Airbus C295W for Fixed-Wing Search and Rescue - Airbus Military C295Airbus Military C295
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
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- #347
Only 16 planes and delivery won't happen until 3 years after the contract is issued. Clearly, the Canadian Government needs to needs to find a different word other than "priority" to describe their procurements. If something was a priority in 2003 then taking delivery in 2023 seems a little bizarre to say the least.
IN THE NEWS | FrontLine Defence
IN THE NEWS | FrontLine Defence
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #348
Junior has ordered some of his minions to be spin-enabled so they can properly BS the Canadian public on how great their FWSAR decision is. On a positive note, the verbal diarrhea on this won't stink as much as the SH decision.:jump
Liberal government brings in defence analysts for briefing on how to sell search and rescue aircraft decision | Ottawa Citizen
Liberal government brings in defence analysts for briefing on how to sell search and rescue aircraft decision | Ottawa Citizen
The C295W for search & rescue is off the shelf now (Brazilian aircraft should start deliveries in the next few months), so it should be possible to deliver it very quickly. Does Canada require a heavily customised variant?
P&W Canada engines, which may have been a factor in the decision.
P&W Canada engines, which may have been a factor in the decision.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
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- #350
There may be some special add-ons but nothing too serious. The number one criterion would have been price. The Canadian content of PWC engines was more than countered by the C-27J's commonality with our Herc C-130J fleet. The shared engines and glass cockpit avionics would mean significant cost savings on lifecycle costs. Then there was the performance advantages of the C-27J which is why the RCAF favoured it. As for delivery, the media here says 3 years for 16 aircraft once the contract is signed so there must be a reasonable number of other orders for the C295 or production rate is somewhat limited. Not sure if Leonardo could do any better. Anyways its done, not my preference but at this point almost anything looks good.
Just speculation on my part but perhaps 18 Superhornets and 16 C295s keeps both Boeing and Airbus from ragging on about provincial and federal loans towards Bombardier's C-Series.
Just speculation on my part but perhaps 18 Superhornets and 16 C295s keeps both Boeing and Airbus from ragging on about provincial and federal loans towards Bombardier's C-Series.
Novascotiaboy
Active Member
LMFAO So So True. That is all it is about. Saving face of the Liberal Party.
I would have thought some additional airframes would have been bought to put fixed wing SAR out of Newfoundland or up North. I guess the next thing to happen is an order for Viking for Twin Otter NG's to replace the Yellowknife based legacy Twin Otters.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
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- #352
Yes, a token order to Viking would be another example of vendor appeasement by junior although two new Viking Otters would be valuable for northern SAR operations.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
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- #353
@nova There is an interesting article by Major Ed Stokes of Australia in this month's Canadian Naval Review. He discusses the need for a careful evaluation of options for ship defence against new supersonic ASCMs and ASBMs including hypersonic glide missiles. These new missiles (in 5-20 million dollar range) look pretty attractive considering they might take out an enemy asset worth 1-1.5 billion (modern frigate) or 8-14 billion (aircraft carrier). Several countries are in the process of replacing surface combatant ships so hopefully their is some collaborative thinking on new options for ship defence against these new missiles.
Sorry, this should have been in the RCN thread.
Sorry, this should have been in the RCN thread.
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Naughty boy. As punishment you will learn the Dear Leaders (Justin Trudaeu) book of wisdom :rotfl
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
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That shouldn't take too long.
times are changing, eg there used to be a requirement in some countries for submissions in triplicate, one was secured, one went to finance and legals, and the last went to the eval PM and engineering teams
now they are digital to save trees.
I've seen major capital asset tenders arrive on pallets pre the digital changeover
a major acquisition bid can be close $10m in overall costs - and thats by a prime. you can imagine the cost imposition for tier 2 or tier 3 bidders
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #357
As followers of this thread are aware, junior will be buying some some SHs as an interim solution for our fighter requirements despite the comments by the RCAF chief stating this was unnecessary. Junior quickly had the requirements changed so the RCAF had to simultaneously meet NATO and NORAD commitments thus justifying (in his mind be anyway) the need for SHs. Despite his new commitments for the the RCAF, apparently there is no problem making CF18s available for air shows. BTW junior, most attendees at air shows would rather see F-35s!
Air force sets aside CF-18 for airshows despite lack of jets for military missions
Air force sets aside CF-18 for airshows despite lack of jets for military missions
t68
Well-Known Member
Seems to me with the media you have brought up he just might have scored an own goal, since I don't follow Canadian politics any other programs he's outsmarting himself with?
But at the end of the day it's the Canadian taxpayer paying for the failing of the current goverment.
There's some perverse side effects that can kick in with this, and although I'm loathe to normally say things like this in public as it can trigger the nutters - there is some foundation truth to consider
Trump is anti-NAFTA
JSF canadian work is of some concern to the 8.3.3 partners as they (current can govt) have no commitment to the platform with that change of govt
American companies especially would have some executive leverage with Trumps mindset to argue that canadian work should be pulled as they are no longer within the spirit and intent of purchase and the program
the 8.0.3 members would and have been ramping up their same concerns and around the same issues - and its not as if they don't have legitimate concerns and a basis for getting work pulled
Lockmart could immediately take heat off themselves by acceding to the principle of Trumps public theatre by redirecting the canadian contracts back to the continental US
there is some real concern here, and the other partners are not just engaging in public dancing. I've attended JSF briefs from 8 years ago where the other international partners were already peeved off that the canadians appeared to be getting disproportionate work compared to intended acquisition, and that advantage was due to NAFTA.
It wouldn't take much for this to blow up from private and controlled meetings to one where Trumps public thought bubbles give someone the courage to start generating traction and put public pressure on Lockmart.
Its an easy win for Lockmart in POTUS terms, contractually though there could be some hurt, but that could be offset by new and additional orders from the tail enders in the 8.3.3 club
Note the reader comments - some of them can't even get the plane details right. reminds me of australian media commentary
Trump is anti-NAFTA
JSF canadian work is of some concern to the 8.3.3 partners as they (current can govt) have no commitment to the platform with that change of govt
American companies especially would have some executive leverage with Trumps mindset to argue that canadian work should be pulled as they are no longer within the spirit and intent of purchase and the program
the 8.0.3 members would and have been ramping up their same concerns and around the same issues - and its not as if they don't have legitimate concerns and a basis for getting work pulled
Lockmart could immediately take heat off themselves by acceding to the principle of Trumps public theatre by redirecting the canadian contracts back to the continental US
there is some real concern here, and the other partners are not just engaging in public dancing. I've attended JSF briefs from 8 years ago where the other international partners were already peeved off that the canadians appeared to be getting disproportionate work compared to intended acquisition, and that advantage was due to NAFTA.
It wouldn't take much for this to blow up from private and controlled meetings to one where Trumps public thought bubbles give someone the courage to start generating traction and put public pressure on Lockmart.
Its an easy win for Lockmart in POTUS terms, contractually though there could be some hurt, but that could be offset by new and additional orders from the tail enders in the 8.3.3 club
Note the reader comments - some of them can't even get the plane details right. reminds me of australian media commentary
t68
Well-Known Member
There's some perverse side effects that can kick in with this, and although I'm loathe to normally say things like this in public as it can trigger the nutters - there is some foundation truth to consider
Trump is anti-NAFTA
JSF canadian work is of some concern to the 8.3.3 partners as they (current can govt) have no commitment to the platform with that change of govt
American companies especially would have some executive leverage with Trumps mindset to argue that canadian work should be pulled as they are no longer within the spirit and intent of purchase and the program
the 8.0.3 members would and have been ramping up their same concerns and around the same issues - and its not as if they don't have legitimate concerns and a basis for getting work pulled
Lockmart could immediately take heat off themselves by acceding to the principle of Trumps public theatre by redirecting the canadian contracts back to the continental US
there is some real concern here, and the other partners are not just engaging in public dancing. I've attended JSF briefs from 8 years ago where the other international partners were already peeved off that the canadians appeared to be getting disproportionate work compared to intended acquisition, and that advantage was due to NAFTA.
It wouldn't take much for this to blow up from private and controlled meetings to one where Trumps public thought bubbles give someone the courage to start generating traction and put public pressure on Lockmart.
Its an easy win for Lockmart in POTUS terms, contractually though there could be some hurt, but that could be offset by new and additional orders from the tail enders in the 8.3.3 club
Note the reader comments - some of them can't even get the plane details right. reminds me of australian media commentary
It's interesting you bring that up GF, I guess it would put the PM in a spot of bother to which camp he shows allegiance with the anti JSF brigade or the pro trade and workshare, if the british could make u-turn after u-turn in regards to JSF and the carriers can't see why Truedeau can't just put an open comp, it's the perfect out especially if as you say the RAAF buy in hasn't gone past it's budget or hit contingency. If ours hasn't why would the Canadians.