Redlands18
Well-Known Member
It's probably because swearing is not aloud on this site.gf and volk, you guys are too mad to comment?
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It's probably because swearing is not aloud on this site.gf and volk, you guys are too mad to comment?
and what does that say about Option F, four years late and counting.Option G is unproven.
First of class - If you look at Astute for instance - Ordered 3/97 laid down 1/01, commissioned 27/8/10.and what does that say about Option F, four years late and counting.
I don't know if it's normal or common.First of class - If you look at Astute for instance - Ordered 3/97 laid down 1/01, commissioned 27/8/10.
Suffren laid down 12/07 - 10 years seems normal for the first boat ?
yep, quite a few engineers I know are on "suicide watch"yep hope they put huge penalty clause in the contract, on time on budget and most of all meets spec laid down.
is the government gluttons for punishment dealing with the French again?
let me quote from Shakespeare - Richard IIIgf and volk, you guys are too mad to comment?
So you're on suicide watch as well then - gotcha :let me quote from Shakespeare - Richard III
"We speak no treason, man: we say the king is wise and virtuous"
If DCNS can win a RAN sub contract, IMHO, the chances of them winning a ANZAC replacement with their FREMM now seems like a real possibility. It may even be a possibility for the RCN's future frigate.As a member of the public, and a tax payer, I was blind sided. I was sold on option J, and I really hoped that was the choice.
I pray that the Barracuda (short finned, longfinned, foulmouth or whatever) is not a Tiger, NH90 or Styer. I have to wonder if this project might lead to a French ANZAC replacment?
Getting used to this though, hoped for a Bourke with 2 helo, s, got an F100 with one. Hoped for Apache, got Tiger. Hoped for new gen blackhawk, got NH90, s. Hoped for SPG, got s.f.a.
Hang on, isn't the ANZAC replacement is shortlisted into T26, F100ASW and the ITALIAN FREMM, the French and German were out?If DCNS can win a RAN sub contract, IMHO, the chances of them winning a ANZAC replacement with their FREMM now seems like a real possibility. It may even be a possibility for the RCN's future frigate.
let me be clear re previous discussions on sub choices.
The decision is made, so its now up to everyone involved to ensure that we hold the development and build promises to account. tally-ho and all that.
But I get more than a little twitchy when I see comments which apply some kind of pixie dust to the solution selected as though its an unimpeachable and totally meritorious choice and that we should accept claims made as entirely accurate.
anyone with a background in engineering would also be raising the flag at this point as some statements are just abject nonsense from a selection and assessment perspective.
by all means lets clap and cheer that a decision has been made - but for goodness sake, lets not turn into the emperor with no clothes on and abandon logic for wishful thinking.
just for clarity - the selection of the prime is just the beginning
all the issue around tech selection and design now become part of the contract negotiation - none of the australian requirements have been confirmed - all thats been confirmed is the selection of the prime to undertake the development and build to australian requirements, cost issues, kpi's, milestone issues, training, development, sustainment, critical maint cycle issues etc....
none of the above has occurred, so any claims about whats going in these boats (outside of the mandated BYG issue) is yet to be started.
more to the point, you can't lay any steel until all this is done as there is an order in how and what you build for subs....
and then there's the subcontractor involvement, certification of sub contractors, acceptance of sub contractors, indemnity against sub contractor work (ie prime has overarching responsibility etc....)
none of the above is trivial - and steel won't be cut until the early 2020's.
I believe you are correct on the French FREMM but things can change. As the Type 26 is well north of 1 billion £ and the design is still not finalized I am a bit surprised it made the cut (although it shows great promise). As the sub award shows, WTF knows what lies ahead?Hang on, isn't the ANZAC replacement is shortlisted into T26, F100ASW and the ITALIAN FREMM, the French and German were out?
Had a quick browse at gentleseas blogspot some commentators think there wont be enough space to fit it. BAKST Engineering has an interesting article on MESMA. My bad its PEMFC not MESMA.the operational constraints applied to Collins are even less relevant now, so without seeing the CONOPs then a larger conventional sub will have to still meet the requirement.
AIP may well be designed into the drivetrain remapping that has to take place - whether AIP generators can fit into the same module space as the diesel electric drivetrain is unknown as basic details around what drivetrain is being offered has yet to be established.
I would question whether MESMA and the DE will fit in the same drivetrain space as the existing nuke module
which basically fits in with what I've been sayingHad a quick browse at gentleseas blogspot some commentators think there wont be enough space to fit it. BAKST Engineering has an interesting article on MESMA.
Yep the hard stuff is all to come.bear in mind that the DCNS proposal involves building a new facility.... and I suspect that this means that DCNS are lining themselves up as a future acquisition bidder for ASC
there is a huge amount of work to be defined here, its not just about building boats
workforce stucture, workforce training, contractual arrangements with sub contractors, financial investigations against all contracting parties, (yet to be determined), facility construction etc etc.....
the design of the sub is probably the last thing on peoples minds ....
Particularly the final decision makers.bear in mind that the DCNS proposal involves building a new facility.... and I suspect that this means that DCNS are lining themselves up as a future acquisition bidder for ASC
the design of the sub is probably the last thing on peoples minds ....
That can't have come as any surprise, unless you (the defence staff) hadn't read the White Paper. Actual delivery of boat number one isn't envisaged in the DWP until around 2030we (Defence staff) were told less than 2 weeks ago that steel won't be cut until 2024, 2025
This is actually what the French wanted to achieve from the very beginning.. The entire program has been revised and the French will only produce 36 fighters in France and thats it. I know a Frenchman who is working in French defence company Thales who told me that it is much better for us to produce 36 fighters locally in France instead of giving away out technology to India for licence manufacturing of 126 fighters so the French are very very happy with the outcome ! and similar will happen in AUSTRALIA, the Aussies are too naive if they really believe the French will transfer all its sub technology to build all 12 subs in Australia by Aussie engineers ??? will never happen !Don't forget India choosing the Rafale as their future MRCA Fighter, supposed to have been 126 aircraft, some built in France then the rest in India. The entire program fell apart at the contract stage.