t68
Well-Known Member
as you pointed out, also the heavy and light vehicle replacement, F88 Austeyr, C27, CH47F, new digital comms under Project LAND 200
but most of these would be viewed under longer terms projects like the C27 which had its genesis back in the 70's I guess
Not sure if this was ever mentioned as I dont recall seeing it but I cam across this in my internet browsing...
https://www.businessnews.com.au/article/Lightweight-military-leaves-nation-exposed
Apperantly some guy David Archibald relaeased a book late last year "Australia's Defence" coming out saying we should be buying 30 second hand 737's at $10 million a pop, and turn them into bombers for only $20 million a pop.. $30 million second 737 bomber.. Wonder why no one has done that before
Or there is his view that we should get 600!! (yes that is six hundred) K9 Thunder's from South Korea.. here I'd have thought 60 would have been over kill for the ADF.
His one half decent point is his agreement with the Soryu class, Where he loses me is his idea to get upto 24..
We should also be getting 2 x more JORN radar systems... Does he know how they actually work?
Cant really go on because my eyes were hurting reading that crap.. God forbid I read the actual book :shudder
https://www.businessnews.com.au/article/Lightweight-military-leaves-nation-exposed
Apperantly some guy David Archibald relaeased a book late last year "Australia's Defence" coming out saying we should be buying 30 second hand 737's at $10 million a pop, and turn them into bombers for only $20 million a pop.. $30 million second 737 bomber.. Wonder why no one has done that before
Or there is his view that we should get 600!! (yes that is six hundred) K9 Thunder's from South Korea.. here I'd have thought 60 would have been over kill for the ADF.
His one half decent point is his agreement with the Soryu class, Where he loses me is his idea to get upto 24..
We should also be getting 2 x more JORN radar systems... Does he know how they actually work?
Cant really go on because my eyes were hurting reading that crap.. God forbid I read the actual book :shudder
UCAV's? What UCAV's have we ordered?
But I can think of a few more for the list... Growlers, G550's, additional Chooks, new combat bridges, new SpecOps vehicles, Hawkei...
New cams for Army and those gay blue street fighter cams for RAAF. (Little short fatmen RAAF clerks, really shouldn't be allowed out in public in those things)
Ballistic helmets, sure there are many many unnoticed, un-sexy buys in defence.
Ballistic helmets, sure there are many many unnoticed, un-sexy buys in defence.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Been out on the road all day working, drove 300k's in a day visiting clients (have to earn a quid, not like some of our pollies!!).
Just sitting here scanning the headlines and guess what?
Poor lame (and especially useless) Bill Shorten is claiming that the release of the new DWP is being used as some sort of "desperate" distraction by the Government. What the???
Seriously, if this guy every gets the top job then I really will be selling up all I own and moving to some vacant Greek Island (one without 'so called' asylum seekers from the Middle East landing on my little beach of course).
Am I showing my political bias? Or is this guy just a complete idiot?
Just sitting here scanning the headlines and guess what?
Poor lame (and especially useless) Bill Shorten is claiming that the release of the new DWP is being used as some sort of "desperate" distraction by the Government. What the???
Seriously, if this guy every gets the top job then I really will be selling up all I own and moving to some vacant Greek Island (one without 'so called' asylum seekers from the Middle East landing on my little beach of course).
Am I showing my political bias? Or is this guy just a complete idiot?
He's not completely stupid - he's realised that he shouldn't let the shadow defmin talk about defence issues in public
Weren't the Growlers, Chooks, SOF vehicles all previous government? I did forget about the G550s. There seems to have been a lot of thunder and lightning but very little rain in terms of major projects that they savaged the previous government over but little action since.
I just thought of one I forgot, sign off on the main batch of F-35s.
What I was thinking of specifically was the fleet tankers, we were literally months away from a decision that would have seen steel cut in 2014 and Australian participation in the build well underway by now. Instead the local build was ruled out, we are now in a shipbuilding black hole with a couple of thousand skilled and experienced workers already redundant and as many or more to follow and we are still no closer to getting the new ships the navy needed a decade ago.
The excuse Johnston made was the local industry lacked the capacity to complete the ships in the time or to cost. Almost two and a half years on we still have no decision, the tankers are further off than if they had been ordered under the original plan, and the resulting black hole will damage RAN capability and increase costs of upcoming Australian shipbuilding projects as capability will need to be rebuilt before they can return to the efficiency they have only just achieved.
Sorry for the rant but it is pretty clear to me the tanker choices were all about (unnecessarily) creating examples of Labors mismanagement (there were more than enough genuine examples) and discrediting Australian shipbuilding to justify offshoring the lot of it, than any genuine desire to fix a capability hole. IMO this is yet another pathetic example of politicization and deliberately making things worse to discredit the previous government. Both sides do it and I believe there should be some form of official or criminal sanction when proven, i.e. maybe crime and misconduct etc.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
GF, it's a very rare day (and I really mean very rare day that I'd disagree with you), but....He's not completely stupid - he's realised that he shouldn't let the shadow defmin talk about defence issues in public
Sorry, but I'm sticking with stupid for Shorten, ok?
Yes he kept that complete moron Conroy locked up (you know what? If a person was allowed to shoot someone in their life and get away with it, "a free get out of gaol card", well you know who my target would be??), anyway......
This morning I was driving early from Sydney to Newcastle to visit my clients, I must have been bored on the motorway, because I was flicking around on the radio stations trying to listen to news of the upcoming DWP, and guess what?? The "assistant" minister for defence, David Feeney was on the ABC on AM.
Here is the transcript:
Defence White Paper again produced too close to an election: Feeney - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Feeney was at times backing the Government (saying that it reflected Labor policy), but still couldn't help himself but be 'political' at times too (maybe the transcript doesn't actually portray the 'tone' of the discussion.
Anyway... What can I say? the less said about the current Labor Party Defence Spokespersons the better!!!
Cheers,
Fingers crossed Mike Kelly gets back in then, he was a good choice and would have left Johnston and Smith for dead. Actually one of the candidates in the electorate I live in is pretty good too, ex army infantry officer (I think 3RAR and Commandos) an electoral observer in Afghanistan, set up and ran aid programs here and os, leaves the LNP member for dead in everyway except that in Darwin being the LNP candidate alone is usually sufficient to get you elected over the average saint or deity.He's not completely stupid - he's realised that he shouldn't let the shadow defmin talk about defence issues in public
You do realise that Feeney is one of the faceless men who knifed Rudd, not because he though Gillard was better , but because Rudd called him out for being a prat in front of his colleagues and he (being an omnipotent faceless man) couldn't let that stand. So one of the root causes of the shocking level of ineffectual, self obsessed, overly politicized, overly personal, shockingly poor governance we have had this decade, is Kev hurt Dave's feelings.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
V, mate, do you know the only thing I'm sad about, and I mean the 'only' thing I'm sad about when Rudd got knifed, is that both the PM and Dep PM (Gillard) didn't get knifed both at the same time!!!
Deep breath........!!
As long as we never, never, get a 'left of the left' leader like Gillard for the ALP (if and when they might reclaim Government), I'll die a happy person.
My only real concern for the future is if we end up with a Gillard 'type' Government again, then it will be lots of pain for defence spending and way too much spending on other, dare I say 'crap'.
The new white paper is here:
Home : White Paper : Department of Defence
Thew new 'integrated investment plan: is here:
404 Page not found!! : Department of Defence
A quick read: holy crap!
New rocket artillery, Ospreys, new deployable light helo, Tiger helo REPLACEMENT, more tanks, new land based anti-ship missile system, new long range air defence system, 15x Poseidons, new Predator / Reaper fleet , 5x G550 EW aircraft and so on...
If I'd posted a wish for all that I'd have been laughed off as a fanboi...
Home : White Paper : Department of Defence
Thew new 'integrated investment plan: is here:
404 Page not found!! : Department of Defence
A quick read: holy crap!
New rocket artillery, Ospreys, new deployable light helo, Tiger helo REPLACEMENT, more tanks, new land based anti-ship missile system, new long range air defence system, 15x Poseidons, new Predator / Reaper fleet , 5x G550 EW aircraft and so on...
If I'd posted a wish for all that I'd have been laughed off as a fanboi...
t68
Well-Known Member
Wow, just need to keep the lib's in now
Havnt got time to read the doc at the moment, but who are the Osprey going to Army or Airforce?
Doesn't say Osprey's specifically but a new aircraft to provide long range aero-medical evacuation and combat search and rescue capability. So could be a Hercules or Chinook variant, but I suspect Osprey is what they truly have their eye on...
Other tidbits include a defensive gun based system to enhance the 'sense and warn' C-RAM system and to provide an ability to engage incoming threats, a new missile based VSHORAD system to replace BS-70 and a NEW Medium ranged surface to air missile system to create an integrated and overlapping air defence system...
The 'light' helos will supplement MH-90 and Chinook and be equipped with 'light armaments' to support SOCOMD and rapidly deployed forces and we are eyeing upgrades for MRH-90 to make them more suitable to support SOCOMD...
The long ranged rocket artillery will be required to provide fire support out to 300k's... ie: ATACMS...
t68
Well-Known Member
Hi AD, just had a skim thru air and sea lift, we're did you find the reference to Osprey?
They had a reference to ten CH-47F's tho
http://www.defence.gov.au/whitepaper/docs/Air-Sea-Lift.pdf
They had a reference to ten CH-47F's tho
http://www.defence.gov.au/whitepaper/docs/Air-Sea-Lift.pdf
Skimming through out from what I could see:
- Further enhancements into JORN
- 2 extra KC-30's ontop of the 7 planned
- 2 Replenishment ships by 2026 (And a third repleneishment or Logistics support ship similar to HMAS Choules in late 2020's)
- Considering future 'additional' heavy lift aircraft (last white tail or even excess US capacity?)
- 7 extra P8's (Total 15)
- 12 Submarines
- 9 Frigates
- 12 OPV's (70 - 80m in length)
- Land based anti ship missiles (Harpoon? Or something else)
- Houn class life extended into the 2030's
- Revirine patrol craft (Are they talking something like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_unit_riverine_craft or this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB90-class_fast_assault_craft?)
Could be a massive boost to the ADF and our regional clout, So long as they choose the right equipment under the best contract conditions (We dont want another Tiger or MRH90 mishap)
- Further enhancements into JORN
- 2 extra KC-30's ontop of the 7 planned
- 2 Replenishment ships by 2026 (And a third repleneishment or Logistics support ship similar to HMAS Choules in late 2020's)
- Considering future 'additional' heavy lift aircraft (last white tail or even excess US capacity?)
- 7 extra P8's (Total 15)
- 12 Submarines
- 9 Frigates
- 12 OPV's (70 - 80m in length)
- Land based anti ship missiles (Harpoon? Or something else)
- Houn class life extended into the 2030's
- Revirine patrol craft (Are they talking something like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_unit_riverine_craft or this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB90-class_fast_assault_craft?)
Could be a massive boost to the ADF and our regional clout, So long as they choose the right equipment under the best contract conditions (We dont want another Tiger or MRH90 mishap)
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Very long time lurker (about 5 years) this is my ist post.
Great to see the DWP finally released. The news of the replacement of the Tigers is interesting, but what is going to be available in 2025? With the Americans working on new technology like the S-97& V-280 how long before they shut down the AH-64 and AH-1Z lines and switch over to the next generation of Rotor Craft (i wont call them Helicopters).
I can see the Americans devoloping a whole family of aircraft based on the technology being developed in the S-97 and V-280 projects post 2030 to replace the battlefield,Marine and Naval roles.
Great to see the DWP finally released. The news of the replacement of the Tigers is interesting, but what is going to be available in 2025? With the Americans working on new technology like the S-97& V-280 how long before they shut down the AH-64 and AH-1Z lines and switch over to the next generation of Rotor Craft (i wont call them Helicopters).
I can see the Americans devoloping a whole family of aircraft based on the technology being developed in the S-97 and V-280 projects post 2030 to replace the battlefield,Marine and Naval roles.