Peripherally and historically relevant at best. The article is eight months old, and much had changed vis a vis the submarine project even before Abbot's demise.
oldsig
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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oldsig
It is however interesting looking at where we were 18 months ago verses now. A buy of Japanese designed and built submarines for $45 billion was seen as a sure thing with the local capability being doomed, now things are very different. Local construction is back on the agenda, even local design input and the Japanese have really sharpened their pencils as the buy is no longer a certainty. Amazing what a little competition can bring to a project, a competition that DFAT, PM&C and the former PM and defence minister never wanted.
I don't think the Mock boat will be built, its just an option to show it is possible to do it all Australian. Its fairly common for first of class to be built overseas, this has happened before with other Australian projects.
But this is what needs to happen. Training, development, support. Leverage of existing industry in Japan, familiar with their construction methods and project style. It needs to be a partnership between Allies not a transaction between businesses.
Japan has a lot of skin in this game. The idea that there would be 12 super conventional subs operating specifically in the region from a capable power is extremely important.
*Speculation zone* -
The fact that the subs are larger is also interesting. I wonder if they will go with the 4 motor option with an additional section for lithium batteries. That would be one hell of a sub. Providing a transit speed above the 216/Collins but just a bit below the super Barracuda.
Could be useful for japan too. As lithium batteries decrease in price they may want to use the larger hull to double the amount of lithium batteries. ?
ARE is in testing, now we just need to get the full ARG operational. The Canberras were definitely worth waiting for. Great to see Army/Navy elements working together.
I wouldnt mind putting $ on Option J as the winner of the fair evaluation process, after the trade agreement just the same.
It seems like a retro tender to me, surprised the french havnt pulled out.
It was in the bag/met the RAN's capability requirement, recommended by CN. Treasury/politicians are obviously better equipped to make capability decisions
and are quarantined the inevitable cost overruns and capability shortfalls, simply blame it on Navy. (mind you it can work the other way as well)same reason Australia 11,s winged keel was kept under a tarp Joe.
Maybe it is using a caterpillar drive
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
DSME Celebrates MoU with Local Partners for Australia's SEA 1654 Programme
Daewoo teams up with BAE, L-3 and SAAB for their tanker proposal. Given their prior work together on the LHDs, I would have expected BAE to partner with Navantia.
If I correctly understand the rather butchered wording of the piece, Australia is due to make a decision on which bid to accept between 2016-2018, with IOC between 2021-2023.
If those very broad dates are correct, NZ will make a tanker selection in advance of Australia, with (from memory) IOC 2018-2019.
Daewoo teams up with BAE, L-3 and SAAB for their tanker proposal. Given their prior work together on the LHDs, I would have expected BAE to partner with Navantia.
If I correctly understand the rather butchered wording of the piece, Australia is due to make a decision on which bid to accept between 2016-2018, with IOC between 2021-2023.
If those very broad dates are correct, NZ will make a tanker selection in advance of Australia, with (from memory) IOC 2018-2019.
Warren King has come out over night recommending a delay to the submarine project to make sure the right decisions are being made:
Ex-defence procurement boss Warren King urges one-year delay to $50 billion submarine decision - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Probably not such a bad thing when considering how much a mistake could cost the country.
Ex-defence procurement boss Warren King urges one-year delay to $50 billion submarine decision - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Probably not such a bad thing when considering how much a mistake could cost the country.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Don't know anything about this gentleman but if a former Canadian procurement boss came out with this I would call BS on him just like I did on our former guy who trashed the F-35 procurement...big surprise, a favourite of the opposition Liberals. The key word is "former". WTF were they when they were in the job?
I'd trust warren king over any politician (and what he's said is absolutely correct. the process has been "indecently accelerated" irrespective of the fact that the motive end state is pure in intent)
And now we have Jay Wetherill coming out opposing the comments:
South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill rejects Warren King plan to delay Future Submarine Project - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
As far as I am concerned the South Australian Government are not bank rolling the project, CofA is and it is their responsibility to ensure that the most cost effective and capable solution is provided. Having said that, any delay and a change to a labor government could see further delays as the they would justify that the Liberals got it wrong. The politicians need to stay out of it and just play "yes minister".
its idiotic in the first degree to accelerate a decision just so as to save a states employment problems - and I'm not unsympathetic to the issue as I'm south australian, but to fast track a decision on state issues is patently ridiculous
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
As I said, I do not know anything about the gentleman. I do know that senior civil servants in Canada, like their political masters, have their own agendas.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
In Canada, decisions based on provincial (our provinces are more or less like your states) considerations are often the case (especially Quebec issues). It is indeed idiotic in the first degree. Politicians pandering to other polilticians...what could possibly go wrong.
t68
Well-Known Member
Hi GF
Is it technically feasable to extend the Collins class submarine to get to the original clean sheet design or have we past the point of no return and have to take on of the overseas options, and how long extra would they still have to serve and would we be better off $$ wise?
My understanding, and I'm sure gf will correct me if I'm wrong, Warren King was a 20 year navy man, a WEO or weapons engineering officer who specialised in combat systems, moving into private industry for another 20 years, before finally joining DMO and technically becoming a defence bureaucrat. He is far far more than a than a senior public (civil) servant.
Yep, he doesn't varnish things either
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