Well no. The T-72B2 had great ERA coverage. So did the T-72M1M. It's the BA and B3 variants which have had problems.
Russian Army/Ground Forces Discussion and Updates
- Thread starter Jack Johnson
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In addition to ERA it has the ARENA E active defense system.
To my knowledge/surprise the US/EU Gen 4 tanks don't yet field "active systems".
The IDF has the TROPHY system on the Merkava and it was offered to the US. Raytheon developed the Quick Kill for the future combat system but I see no evidence of its operational deployment. Germany has the AMAP ADS but again I see no operational deployment.
Anyone have any updates?
Thoughts?
Arena hasn't been employed either. Neither has Drozd-2 or Afganit. So yeah. It looks like the T-14, and the new tracked vehicles, will carry a kinetic APS but they're a few years into the future.
If you really want to look at the first one, it was the original Drozd used on Naval Infantry T-55s. Shtora is interesting too, but it doesn't have a hard-kill element.
More and more info coming out of the Army-2015 forum. There's an upgrade for in-service T-90s planned, "to the T-90MS level with very short time for preparation of a shot". I wonder if this means they will finally pull those original T-90s out of storage and put them back in service.
They're also putting additional protection on to the new T-72B3"M" variant, the so-called biathlon tanks. What this means in practice remains to be seen. It may mean a new era, or it may mean that they will have the urban warfare side skirts that UVZ showed off last year.
http://twower.livejournal.com/1697192.html
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2050610
Also a "new" vehicle for the Arctic Brigades. It's an MT-LBu with a dozer blade, and a combat module featuring the 2A42, a machinegun, and probably an automatic grenade launcher.
http://twower.livejournal.com/1697636.html
https://pp.vk.me/c621916/v621916538/2fcaa/YAl4XRZ8ZCs.jpg
There is also a planned reduction of various lubricants and oils from the several hundred different ones used today, to only several types for each branch of service. However the planned date by is 2030. In principle this is the right direction, but the time frame is a little long.
http://twower.livejournal.com/1697340.html
First photos of the upgraded Sprut-SDM1. It looks like it will still use the old chassis, just have the engine and transmission standardized with the BMD-4M.
http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2015/06/1_17.html
And a new BTR-80 variant with the unmanned machinegun module from the next-gen platforms, as well as additional armor. In this case you can clearly see the extra armor panels on the front of the BTR, underneath the cage armor.
http://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/368619.html
http://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/368033.html
http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2015/06/2015.html
http://panzerbar.livejournal.com/2656482.html
Ratnik combat gear will include an SVD upgrade called the SVD-M, and a bull-pup .50 cal rifle.
http://panzerbar.livejournal.com/2657778.html
The French company Hutchinson Group will build a factory in Russia to produce the wheels for Russia's future combat platforms. They say that due to sanctions, it's hard to produce the wheels in France.
http://panzerbar.livejournal.com/2657984.html
A giant photo-set from the Army 2015 exposition. Warning, might take a minute to load. There's an insane number of photos.
The second link is a smaller set. Note the BTR-80 based ATGM carrier.
http://u-96.livejournal.com/4371713.html
http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/63880/
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Thank You for the detailed update, sounds like the west is still looking into a kinetic Active defense then
Thank You
Some more updates.
The earlier news about restoring the 1st Tank Brigade turned out to be false. Instead they're restoring it as the 10th Guards Tank Division. It will likely serve as the basis for the 20th Army, together with the 33rd Motor-Rifles, and a new Motor-Rifle Bde to be created.
A reminder the 20th Army used to be near Moscow, but has now been relocated to the south-west. The 2nd Guards Tank Army has taken over the former 20th Armies units, including the 2nd Motor-Rifles Guards Division, the 4th Guards Tank, and the 6th Tank, Brigades. There's another Motor-Rifle Brigade in it, I think it's the 27th, but I'm not sure.
bmpd - Ðа границе Ñ Ð£ÐºÑ€Ð°Ð¸Ð½Ð¾Ð¹ будет воÑÑтановлена 10-Ñ Ð³Ð²Ð°Ñ€Ð´ÐµÐ¹ÑÐºÐ°Ñ Ñ‚Ð°Ð½ÐºÐ¾Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð´Ð¸Ð²Ð¸Ð·Ð¸Ñ
10 new RKhBZ regiments have been created. Note prior to this, each Military District had one brigade. Now it appears each Army will have a single regiment. One of them is located in Crimea.
bmpd - Ð’ РоÑÑийÑкой Ðрмии Ñформированы деÑÑÑ‚ÑŒ новых полков РХБЗ
Also Borisoglebsk-2 EW complexes have been delivered to Center MD. Usually this sort of equipment goes to South MD, sometimes West MD. I'm not sure what to make of them going to Center MD.
Note the photo is wrg. The video at the bottom of the post shows the real thing.
nortwolf_sam - «БориÑоглебÑк-2» в ЦВО
The earlier news about restoring the 1st Tank Brigade turned out to be false. Instead they're restoring it as the 10th Guards Tank Division. It will likely serve as the basis for the 20th Army, together with the 33rd Motor-Rifles, and a new Motor-Rifle Bde to be created.
A reminder the 20th Army used to be near Moscow, but has now been relocated to the south-west. The 2nd Guards Tank Army has taken over the former 20th Armies units, including the 2nd Motor-Rifles Guards Division, the 4th Guards Tank, and the 6th Tank, Brigades. There's another Motor-Rifle Brigade in it, I think it's the 27th, but I'm not sure.
bmpd - Ðа границе Ñ Ð£ÐºÑ€Ð°Ð¸Ð½Ð¾Ð¹ будет воÑÑтановлена 10-Ñ Ð³Ð²Ð°Ñ€Ð´ÐµÐ¹ÑÐºÐ°Ñ Ñ‚Ð°Ð½ÐºÐ¾Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð´Ð¸Ð²Ð¸Ð·Ð¸Ñ
10 new RKhBZ regiments have been created. Note prior to this, each Military District had one brigade. Now it appears each Army will have a single regiment. One of them is located in Crimea.
bmpd - Ð’ РоÑÑийÑкой Ðрмии Ñформированы деÑÑÑ‚ÑŒ новых полков РХБЗ
Also Borisoglebsk-2 EW complexes have been delivered to Center MD. Usually this sort of equipment goes to South MD, sometimes West MD. I'm not sure what to make of them going to Center MD.
Note the photo is wrg. The video at the bottom of the post shows the real thing.
nortwolf_sam - «БориÑоглебÑк-2» в ЦВО
alexkvaskov
New Member
I think whenever new kit goes somewhere other than South means the South has been re-armed fully in that type.
I doubt that. The 55th Motor-Rifles recently took 20 Tigr-M armored cars. Are you saying South MD has been completely re-armed with Tigr armored cars? How about the attack helos going to West MD and East MD. Are you saying there are no more old Mi-24s left in South MD?
I agree with u, it´s quite remarkable that no modern western army to-date don´t have any kind of active protection as standard equipment.
alexkvaskov
New Member
Reports of a new tank army to be deployed in Moscow region by Dec 1.
Ð’ РоÑÑии может поÑвитьÑÑ ÐµÑ‰Ðµ одна Ñ‚Ð°Ð½ÐºÐ¾Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð°Ñ€Ð¼Ð¸Ñ / ÐовоÑти / ÐезавиÑÐ¸Ð¼Ð°Ñ Ð³Ð°Ð·ÐµÑ‚Ð°
Looks like this new unit will be taking over for the 20th army former's AoR.
Can someone remind me the Russian tank army TO&E?
Ð’ РоÑÑии может поÑвитьÑÑ ÐµÑ‰Ðµ одна Ñ‚Ð°Ð½ÐºÐ¾Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð°Ñ€Ð¼Ð¸Ñ / ÐовоÑти / ÐезавиÑÐ¸Ð¼Ð°Ñ Ð³Ð°Ð·ÐµÑ‚Ð°
Looks like this new unit will be taking over for the 20th army former's AoR.
Can someone remind me the Russian tank army TO&E?
I already posted about this. This is the 1st Guards Tank Army. Forming has already begun, and is to be completed by December 1st. Another Tank Army is also planned, but the location is unknown, and according to MoD source no official documents have been signed yet.
Anyways, there are no standard TO's for Tank Armies. The 1st Tank will have the 2nd Guards Motor-Rifle Division, the 4th Guards Tank Division, the 6th Tank Bde, and the 27th Motor-Rifle Bde. They will also probably get the full complement of army-level assets. This likely means an MTO bde (logistics and support), a command and control bde, an arty bde, an RKhBZ regiment, a recon bde, a helicopter regiment, ground-attack UAV units (wishful thinking) and apparently an air defense bde.
Also apparently the 1st Guards Tank, and the 20th General Purpose Army will be the first two to get the Armata tanks, and the Kurganets IFVs. There is a 2016-2017 timeframe cited. What this likely means is that the 2nd Motor-Rifles will get them (they traditionally do a lot of experimental exploitation of new equipment).
Keep in mind the 20th Army is now left without almost any units in it, since it's former units are handed over to the 1st Tank Army. It does have the 9th Tank Bde in Nizhniy Novgorod, which appears to be a new unit, probably just formed. Although that might be a typo, and they might have meant the 9th Motor-Rifles. It will also likely get the 10th Tank Division which is being formed as well.
Добро пожаловать в журнал Ð*оÑтовÑкого Орла - Больше Танковых Ðрмий хороших и разных
http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2015/07/blog-post_90.html#more
http://panzerbar.livejournal.com/2722135.html
Anyways, some more updates on the VDV.
6 tank companies are being formed, 1 per division, including the new 104th Airborne (former 31st brigade). What they will have for vehicles is unclear. I'm hoping this is simply a redistribution of the Sprut-SD, rather then actual MBTs.
Theyre getting 50 BMD-4Ms, and 30 BTR-MDMs, before the end of this year.
EDIT: Almost forgot. VDV recon companies are now recon btlns. This was planned for some time.
http://eagle-rost.livejournal.com/520602.html
http://twower.livejournal.com/1737291.html
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alexkvaskov
New Member
Whoops, my bad.
Regarding trials and new tech, are the forthcoming T-90MS likely to join South or West MD?
Regarding trials and new tech, are the forthcoming T-90MS likely to join South or West MD?
It's my understanding that they intend to upgrade the existing T-90 fleet to the MS standard. It would be smart of them to use the baseline T-90s currently in central storage as the first batches. In which case they could re-arm some units. Anyways, I don't know where they will go. But honestly it's not clear. They're currently planning to create a new tank division, the 10th, theoretically on the Ukrainian border as part of the 20th army. They will need tanks. They could be the recipients. Given the mess in Ukraine, there's a good chance they will want their newest vehicles there.
Blue Jay
Member
So the T-15 Armata "heavy infantry fighting vehicle" is based off of the same platform as the T-14 Armata. It has the Epoch turret, but I don't know if its meant to carry infantry or not. Meanwhile the Kurganets-25 and Bumerang platforms seem to be the vehicles of choice in the IFV/APC role.
So where and how does the T-15 fit into Russian doctrine? Is it similar to the BMPT and BMPT-72? I remember reading somewhere that the BMPTs would work in combined platoons with tanks. Each platoon with two tanks and one BMPT which would provide defense against enemy infantry in an urban combat. Is this what the T-15 is meant to do or is it going to be used in a different role?
So where and how does the T-15 fit into Russian doctrine? Is it similar to the BMPT and BMPT-72? I remember reading somewhere that the BMPTs would work in combined platoons with tanks. Each platoon with two tanks and one BMPT which would provide defense against enemy infantry in an urban combat. Is this what the T-15 is meant to do or is it going to be used in a different role?
Armored regiments and brigades in the Russian Army have one mech-infantry btln in them. These mech infantry btlns will have the T-15 as their IFV.
Blue Jay
Member
Aha i see. That makes sense. So just to confirm, the kurganets and bumerang are to be used in infantry regiments and brigades? Much like the BMP and btr are used in different units? All the while replacing the MT-LB?
No doubt a quantum leap in Russian armored vehicles IMO catching up with and in some cases surpassing their western counterparts.
I think it will be interesting to see, based on the current economic situation in Russian and price of Crude, how long it takes and in what numbers they're actually fielded.
Sort of but not really. Motor-Rifle Brigades and Regiments should continue using Kurganets or Bumerang vehicles in replacement of their BMPs or BTRs. However Tank Brigades and Regiments will replace their BMPs (they don't use BTRs iirc) with the T-15.
MT-LBs aren't getting replaced at all, at least not as a type. Some units currently use MT-LBs as APCs or even IFVs (after getting the 30mm cannon module). Those might get replaced with new vehicles. Also the Arctic Brigades use the MT-LB because it offers the best mobility in those conditions. A new Arctic combat vehicle is in the works for them. The problem of course is that the MT-LB is the chassis for SAMs, SP arty, and all kinds of special assets (C4I, EW, radar, etc).
More fun news. The Armata ARV has been sighted in some of the footage for RAE-2015. They've made it so it can hook up tanks, without crew exiting the vehicle.
Gur Khan attacks!: БÐ*Ð*Ðœ-Т-16 "Ðрмата" - первые изображениÑ
Other interesting Armata platforms footage,including a rare interior shot.
БÐ*Ð*Ðœ Ðрмата - Andrei-bt
Continued UGV development, something that looks like it comes from the set of Terminator 7.
Терминаторы вÑе ближе? - Берлога Бронемедведа
Finally there are 3 new BMP-3 developments. Vitayz is the same old BMP-3M but with new optics, FCS, slat armor, as well as additional armor, and other upgrades. It's the same vehicle but better. Derivatsiya is a BMP-3 with an unmanned module carrying the 57mm auto-cannon (S-60). Dragoon is a total rework with a front engine, and a new unmanned module carrying the traditional BMP-3 weapons but completely outside the hull. Early photos were "leaked" by one of the ladies working at RAE-2015.
I honestly wonder, if you add the Kvartet ATGM set up (2X2 Kornet ATGMs each side of the turret) you could replace the combat module on those next-gen platforms with the combat module from the Dragoon.
"Драгун" и "ДеривациÑ" - bmpd
Actually the girl's personal blog contains some more "leaks" from the upcoming RAE-2015.
Izolda Nenilina
EDIT: RAE-2015 is open giving us out first good photos.
http://karelmilitary.livejournal.com/609169.html
http://military-informant.com/c55-p...narodnoy-vyistavki-russia-arms-expo-2015.html
And in procurement news, the first Kurganets vehicle will be delivered to the troops next year, but this is likely for experimental exploitation. Meanwhile 200 BMP-3s will be purchased in the next two years.
http://twower.livejournal.com/1775426.html
http://military-informant.com/army/...zhenie-rossiyskoy-armii-uzhe-v-2016-godu.html
EDIT2: Plenty of photos of the new BMP-3 variants, and other stuff (armored dozer, Kurganets-based ARV model, Armata interiors).
http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2015/09/3.html
http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2015/09/blog-post_9.html
http://twower.livejournal.com/1775981.html
http://panzerbar.livejournal.com/2809074.html
http://panzerbar.livejournal.com/2807189.html
http://vestnik-rm.ru/news-4-13378.htm
http://vestnik-rm.ru/news-4-13385.htm
http://vestnik-rm.ru/news-4-13377.htm
http://panzerbar.livejournal.com/2806172.html
Gur Khan attacks!: БÐ*Ð*Ðœ-Т-16 "Ðрмата" - первые изображениÑ
Other interesting Armata platforms footage,including a rare interior shot.
БÐ*Ð*Ðœ Ðрмата - Andrei-bt
Continued UGV development, something that looks like it comes from the set of Terminator 7.
Терминаторы вÑе ближе? - Берлога Бронемедведа
Finally there are 3 new BMP-3 developments. Vitayz is the same old BMP-3M but with new optics, FCS, slat armor, as well as additional armor, and other upgrades. It's the same vehicle but better. Derivatsiya is a BMP-3 with an unmanned module carrying the 57mm auto-cannon (S-60). Dragoon is a total rework with a front engine, and a new unmanned module carrying the traditional BMP-3 weapons but completely outside the hull. Early photos were "leaked" by one of the ladies working at RAE-2015.
I honestly wonder, if you add the Kvartet ATGM set up (2X2 Kornet ATGMs each side of the turret) you could replace the combat module on those next-gen platforms with the combat module from the Dragoon.
"Драгун" и "ДеривациÑ" - bmpd
Actually the girl's personal blog contains some more "leaks" from the upcoming RAE-2015.
Izolda Nenilina
EDIT: RAE-2015 is open giving us out first good photos.
http://karelmilitary.livejournal.com/609169.html
http://military-informant.com/c55-p...narodnoy-vyistavki-russia-arms-expo-2015.html
And in procurement news, the first Kurganets vehicle will be delivered to the troops next year, but this is likely for experimental exploitation. Meanwhile 200 BMP-3s will be purchased in the next two years.
http://twower.livejournal.com/1775426.html
http://military-informant.com/army/...zhenie-rossiyskoy-armii-uzhe-v-2016-godu.html
EDIT2: Plenty of photos of the new BMP-3 variants, and other stuff (armored dozer, Kurganets-based ARV model, Armata interiors).
http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2015/09/3.html
http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2015/09/blog-post_9.html
http://twower.livejournal.com/1775981.html
http://panzerbar.livejournal.com/2809074.html
http://panzerbar.livejournal.com/2807189.html
http://vestnik-rm.ru/news-4-13378.htm
http://vestnik-rm.ru/news-4-13385.htm
http://vestnik-rm.ru/news-4-13377.htm
http://panzerbar.livejournal.com/2806172.html
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I haven't read the article, but you're dead wrong on those tank origins. The T-34 comes from Kharkov, but the T-62 and T-72 comes from Nizhniy Tagil (UVZ), Leonid Kartsev was (iirc) the developed on the T-62. The Kirov factory is indeed responsible for the T-80 but before that they were working on the T-10. Technically it shared production with Chelyabinsk, and their two versions were actually incompatible until '62 when the Kirov one became standard.
Technically T-62 production also went to 3 places (Malyshev in Kharkov, Factory 183 in Omsk, and Nizhniy Tagil) but it was clearly the brainchild of Nizhniy Tagil, in fact this is where that particular design bureu takes center stage. The T-72 and T-90 were all from Nizhniy Tagil. The Malyshev plant did the T-64 and did the UD upgrade on the Leningrad T-80. They were also working on object 377 (OKR Molot). The Leningrad bureau was working on a T-80 follow-on Object 292. Nizhniy Tagil was working on Sovershenstvovanie-88 which was Object 188 (Object 188 became the T-90 iirc).