Russian Army/Ground Forces Discussion and Updates

[ASSAIL]

Have to say, the Bumerang sits really high up; seems like a V-shaped counter IED hull too.

Both Kurganets and Bumerang seem to be amphibious, which raises the question of weight. Generally, above what tonnage are vehicles no longer amphibious?

it depends on their displacement. Archimedes law applies

 

[Feanor]

it depends on their displacement. Archimedes law applies

If it weighs the same as a duck, she's a witch!

Ok, I'm kidding, but I couldn't resist.

But honestly, there does seem to be a weight cut-off past which the design principles would have to be altered too much for the vehicles to be effective on land and still swim. There's a reason nobody's made amphibious MBTs, instead including fording equipment with their tank units.

 

[alexkvaskov]

Well yeah, if the MBT or APC mass is spread over enough area, it will float, that's why a 100,000 ton Nimitz floats. That's all I remember from physics class haha.

I recall 20 or so tons thrown around as the upper limit for amphibious capability.

 

[Feanor]

Top view of both Kurganets variants.

Берлога Бронемедведа - Ðе в фаÑ, не в профиь, а в?

Also top view of the Armata with the T-90A.

Берлога Бронемедведа - Хлебом не корми - дай измерить

BMD-4M state trials have completed, which is no surprise. The vehicle has been polished considerably and shouldn't be too far from full scale serial production. The second link is some photos from the experimental exploitation.

«ГоÑударÑтвенные иÑÐ¿Ñ‹Ñ‚Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ Ð±Ð¾ÐµÐ²Ñ‹Ñ… машин деÑанта БМД-4Ðœ завершены» в блоге «ÐÑ€Ð¼Ð¸Ñ Ð¸ Флот» - Сделано у наÑ
samoletchik - БМД-4М

Russian troops in the field. Lots of them.

codename_it: Ð’ чиÑтом поле.

State trials of the Uran unmanned mineclearers are set to commence along with experimental exploitation. The Uran combat robots are on a separate program, and are now getting the Ataka ATGM.

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - Про "Уран"
http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/62509/
http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2015/05/blog-post_47.html

Sosna SAM trials are set to begin. It will replace the Strela-10M complexes.

http://www.military-informant.com/n...niya-novejshego-armejskogo-kompleksa-pvo.html

EDIT: A self-propelled ATGM carrier using the BMD-4M chassis and the Kornet-D1 modules is being designed. Well it looks like the VDV at least are going with a unified chassis, the BMD-4M chassis. I wonder if they will also get a new mortar for it.

http://alexeyvvo.livejournal.com/109655.html

 

[Feanor]

An interesting photo-set from Iturup, one of the Kuril islands. Based on uniform, we can assume that these are relatively recent photos. Note the conditions, and vehicles in use.

codename_it: Служба на курильÑком оÑтрове Итуруп.

T-90 and Aramta size comparison based on top-photos.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1314003.html

 

[alexkvaskov]

An interesting photo-set from Iturup, one of the Kuril islands. Based on uniform, we can assume that these are relatively recent photos. Note the conditions, and vehicles in use.

Some vehicles seem fairly fresh; infrastructure could do with some upgrades.

So the Kurile T-80s are replaced with T-72s?

What's this BTR variant?

 

[Feanor]

Some vehicles seem fairly fresh; infrastructure could do with some upgrades.

So the Kurile T-80s are replaced with T-72s?

What's this BTR variant?

It appears so. Also, I don't know what BTR variant that is but it reminds me of this one. Obviously they're not the same, but it could be another kind of EW set up on the BTR-80 chassis.

РБ-531Б Инфауна | MilitaryRussia.Ru — отечеÑÑ‚Ð²ÐµÐ½Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð²Ð¾ÐµÐ½Ð½Ð°Ñ Ñ‚Ðхника (поÑле 1945г.)

 

[FormerDirtDart]

Well yeah, if the MBT or APC mass is spread over enough area, it will float, that's why a 100,000 ton Nimitz floats. That's all I remember from physics class haha.

I recall 20 or so tons thrown around as the upper limit for amphibious capability.

As the USMC's EFV program produced a vehicle that weighed in just short of 40 tons, I would have to assume that the upper limit isn't anywhere near merely 20 or so tons, in fact.

 

[Feanor]

River crossing exercises. Note the reloader vehicle, representing an RS-24 Yars ICBM. Interesting material in general.

bmpd - ФорÑирование водной преграды

And another variant of the Tayfun-U MRAP.

Берлога Бронемед²ÐµÐ´Ð° - Ðе "Тайфун", а "Тайфун-У"

 

[alexkvaskov]

An upgraded Sprut-SD is in the works, probably on a BMD-4M chassis, and with a new FCS "better then that of the T-90 tank".

Is the Sprut in production at the moment?

 

[Feanor]

Is the Sprut in production at the moment?

Nope. Iirc 45 of them were produced and are in two artillery btlns, attached to VDV units as "self-propelled anti-tank guns".

Remember there were a number of BMD-3 produced, and the Sprut uses the BMD-3 chassis. The BMD-3s were remanufactured into RKhBZ recon vehicles for the VDV. BMD-1s have been almost completely remanufactured as BMD-2s. I'm not sure what they will do with the old BMD-4s. They use a BMD-3 chassis, but have the Bakhcha combat module. I'm not sure if they ever sorted out the paradropping of those things. They could, I suppose, turn the chassis into more RKhBZ recons, and recycle the modules for BMD-4Ms or BMP-3s.

 

[Feanor]

The 1st Guards Tank Army is back from non-existence. It contains, currently the 2nd Motor-Rifles Div, the 4th Tank Division, the 6th Tank Bde, and the 27th Motor-Rifles Bde. It also contains a command and control bde, with an unknown number. It's theoretically a very tank-heavy formation, but practically I don't like what I see. Both of the divisions appear to be equivalent to the old 1st echelon cadre divisions. In other words they're not fully staffed. The army also has no air defense, no engineers, no supply, no anything. A command and control brigade has been formed but that's it so far.

Also the 20th Army is now based in Voronezh and effectively commands the West MD units facing Ukraine. It's getting the recreated 1st Tank Brigade (which will bring the number of tank brigades back up to 4, along with 1 tank division). It's also getting the 9th Motor-Rifles, and the new motor-rifle brigade being formed in El'nya.

Берлога Бронемедведа - 1-Ð°Ñ Ð³Ð²Ð°Ñ€Ð´ÐµÐ¹ÑÐºÐ°Ñ Ñ‚Ð°Ð½ÐºÐ¾Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð°Ñ€Ð¼Ð¸Ñ Ð¾Ð±Ñ€Ð°Ð·Ñ†Ð° 2015 года.
bmpd - СÑмирована 1-Ñ Ð³Ð²Ð°Ñ€Ð´ÐµÐ¹ÑÐºÐ°Ñ Ñ‚Ð°Ð½ÐºÐ¾Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð°Ñ€Ð¼Ð¸Ñ

 

[Ranger25]

The 1st Guards Tank Army is back from non-existence. It contains, currently the 2nd Motor-Rifles Div, the 4th Tank Division, the 6th Tank Bde, and the 27th Motor-Rifles Bde. It also contains a command and control bde, with an unknown number. It's theoretically a very tank-heavy formation, but practically I don't like what I see. Both of the divisions appear to be equivalent to the old 1st echelon cadre divisions. In other words they're not fully staffed. The army also has no air defense, no engineers, no supply, no anything. A command and control brigade has been formed but that's it so far.

Also the 20th Army is now based in Voronezh and effectively commands the West MD units facing Ukraine. It's getting the recreated 1st Tank Brigade (which will bring the number of tank brigades back up to 4, along with 1 tank division). It's also getting the 9th Motor-Rifles, and the new motor-rifle brigade being formed in El'nya.

Берлога Бронемедведа - 1-Ð°Ñ Ð³Ð²Ð°Ñ€Ð´ÐµÐ¹ÑÐºÐ°Ñ Ñ‚Ð°Ð½ÐºÐ¾Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð°Ñ€Ð¼Ð¸Ñ Ð¾Ð±Ñ€Ð°Ð·Ñ†Ð° 2015 года.
bmpd - Сформирована 1-Ñ Ð³Ð²Ð°Ñ€Ð´ÐµÐ¹ÑÐºÐ°Ñ Ñ‚Ð°Ð½ÐºÐ¾Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð°Ñ€Ð¼Ð¸Ñ

Concerning indeed, NATO and the EU have both openly discussed their concerns with rearming of the Russian Army. Germany has recently called back nearly 100 additional Leopard 2 tanks from mothballed reserves. Overall NATO has massively depleted Armor numbers V the end of the Cold War. I believe Putins moves in the Ukraine and threats toward the Baltics are of concern.

 

[Haavarla]

Concerning indeed, NATO and the EU have both openly discussed their concerns with rearming of the Russian Army. Germany has recently called back nearly 100 additional Leopard 2 tanks from mothballed reserves. Overall NATO has massively depleted Armor numbers V the end of the Cold War. I believe Putins moves in the Ukraine and threats toward the Baltics are of concern.

As i understand it, those 100 or so Leo 2's was bought back to Product Information | KMW from the German army reserve.

There they will upgrade it with elements from the Leopard 2 NG consept.
And on top of that, Both Norway and Sweeden are slated to get the same outfit, only difference, they will both keep the L44 gun, cause it is more reliable and suited for their terrain landscape.

OPPGRADERING AV LEOPARD STRIDSVOGN - Slik blir Norges nye stridsvogner - tu.no/industri

 

[Feanor]

So there's a new AAA planned on the Kurganets chassis, using the 57mm gun. It's probably the burevestnik module on a medium chassis, with an EO system, and maybe a radar.

There's also a 120mm cannon planned on the same. Probably a 2S1 replacement.

Берлога Бронемедведа - ЗСУ
http://panzerbar.livejournal.com/2642983.html

The 104th Para-Assault Division is being re-created, on the basis of the 31st Brigade. And another VDV brigade is planned in Voronezh. On top of that, all the VDV Divisions are getting a third regiment and a tank unit (probably a btln). Presumably the tanks are the upgraded Sprut-SD.

Recon companies in the VDV divisions have all been turned into btlns, with the first company of each recon btln being SpetzNaz VDV.

There is also work, nearly completed, on a 120mm arty for the VDV, and a new 152mm art for the VDV under OKR Zauralets.

bmpd - Планы воÑÑÐ¾Ð·Ð´Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ 104-й деÑантно-штурмовой дивизии
http://twower.livejournal.com/1681590.html
http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/906778.html

The 103rd Missile Bde in East MD is getting the Iskander, possibly the first in East MD. It's the 6th brigade to get them.

Добро пожаловать в журнал Ð*оÑтовÑкого Орла - 103 Ñ€Ð°ÐºÐµÑ‚Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð±Ñ€Ð¸Ð³Ð°Ð´Ð° ÑÐ»ÐµÐ´ÑƒÑŽÑ‰Ð°Ñ Ð² перевооружении на "ИÑкандеры"

The upgraded Sprut-SMD-1 is planned for demonstration soon too, at the Army-2015 forum.

Gur Khan attacks!: "Спрут-СДМ-1", новейший ÐºÐ¾Ð¼Ð¿Ð»ÐµÐºÑ Ð°ÐºÑ‚Ð¸Ð²Ð½Ð¾Ð¹ защиты и другие Ñвои разработки концерн "Тракторные заводы" предÑтавит на форуме "ÐрмÐ

Ratnik has been delivered to one of the first line units, a SpetzNaz unit in Central MD.

?????????-????????? ??????? ????????

Modeling tank battles between the T-72B3 and the T-80 (most likely B or BV variant) resulted in the T-80s being massively inferior. The work was done by the 333rd Training Center in Mulino.

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - Т-80 vs Т-72Б3

Testing of a new sight with a channel for remote detonation for shells fired, is being tested right now.

Gur Khan attacks!: ИÑÐ¿Ñ‹Ñ‚Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ Ð¾Ð¿Ñ‹Ñ‚Ð½Ð¾Ð³Ð¾ образца прошли уÑпешно

Photos from a snap-readiness check of the new Arctic 80th Motor-Rifles.

http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/912914.html

In the comments to this post about Russian Marines on board ships, there is an interesting video of training sessions. This is CQB and live-fire training, for Marines on anti-piracy missions. Note the attachments on the rifles. These are probably recon marines.

http://panzerbar.livejournal.com/2636881.html

 

[alexkvaskov]

Is this ERA or applique armor on this T-72? I've been confused for the longest time by that specific glacis plate layout.

http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/Tank-Biathlon-2014/i-Bc5qqgv/0/O/TankBiathlon14part1-26.jpg

 

[Feanor]

Is this ERA or applique armor on this T-72? I've been confused for the longest time by that specific glacis plate layout.

http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/Tank-Biathlon-2014/i-Bc5qqgv/0/O/TankBiathlon14part1-26.jpg

Applique I believe.

By the way, "several hundred" of these "biathlon tanks" have been ordered, likely upgraded from existing T-72Bs (wouldn't make much sense to manufacture new ones).

Ìèíîáîðîíû ÐÔ çàêóïèò íåñêîëüêî ñîòåí «áèàòëîííûõ» òàíêîâ Ò-72Á3 - ÂÏÊ.name

Amusing but also sad, since they're electronically far ahead of the current T-90A, not to mention the older T-90 baseline, but their protection levels are inferior. I wonder if they will upgrade their T-90 fleet to a single standard with these new T-72s.

Also the 5th Tank Brigade in the Russian Far East may be the first to get the new T-14 Armata tanks. Currently the brigade has a mix of older T-72B and newer T-72B3 tanks and is famous/infamous for being one of the units confirmed to have sent a battalion tactical group to Ukraine. Not sure if they were in the Ilovaysk battle, but they definitely participated in the closing of the Debal'tsevo pocket.

bmpd - "БурÑÑ‚Ñкие танкиÑÑ‚Ñ‹" первыми получат "Ðрматы"?

bmpd - "БурÑÑ‚Ñкие танкиÑÑ‚Ñ‹" первыми получат "Ðрматы"?

 

[alexkvaskov]

They have ordered and inducted both B3 and B4 models from what I've read; I assume they're doing this as a stop gap to replace T-80s and the oldest 72s.

Must say I'm stunned if these recent T-72 variants are rolling around with no hull ERA. Also, the sloppy turret ERA placement remains frustrating.

Going forward, are they likely to procure further B4s while they wait for the Armata?

 

[Feanor]

They have ordered and inducted both B3 and B4 models from what I've read; I assume they're doing this as a stop gap to replace T-80s and the oldest 72s.

Must say I'm stunned if these recent T-72 variants are rolling around with no hull ERA. Also, the sloppy turret ERA placement remains frustrating.

Going forward, are they likely to procure further B4s while they wait for the Armata?

Yes. I'm not sure if the B4 designation has officially been adopted.

And yes, the upgrades have been quite sloppy. For example the new main gunner's sights are badly placed, making them very uncomfortable to use for the gunners. Often times, at least in training, they use the old sights instead.

Also, the T-80's have begun going through overhauls again. Meaning they will stay in service for longer then originally intended. This probably has to do with the fact that they're creating new units quite rapidly. For example we will probably have a total of 2 new tank brigades, and one of the old brigades is now a division. Also there are quite a few new Motor-Rifle units. Probably we're looking at a good 15-20 new tank btlns in the 2010-2016 time frame.

A heavy weapon fire support vehicle on the Bumerang chassis is planned. Abbreviated BMTV, this could be something like a Sprut turret on the Bumerang chassis. Or something else entirely, given that the Sprut turret penetrates the chassis.

http://panzerbar.livejournal.com/2653558.html

 

[alexkvaskov]

One of my favourite T-72 upgrades is the M-95 Degman which has extremely good hull and turret ERA coverage. In general, the Eastern Euro NATO members seem to have better 72 upgrades than Russia - the M4CZ, PT-91 to name two.