War Against ISIS

[RobWilliams]

Rob, thanks for the links, indeed IS armour is not the issue - to the coalition at least. I was thinking in terms of the OP's comments about IqA getting more 'armoured cars'. It's basically the wrong class of vehicle to be in the frontline fight against IS. IFVs, MBTs, that I can understand, but as you say, co-ordination is another matter altogether. From my experience, lot of training has to be done in order for an armoured inf platoon to fight properly, I can't imagine what the state of the IqA's armoured forces are like.

Agreed, wasn't Iraq well on the way to a serious number of Bradley IFVs before this crisis erupted? Seems - IMO - like it could be pretty handy if they got the extra armour packages and cage armour with it. 25mm up front which can open up T-55/T-72s, could probably get TOWs if they wanted but that's not exactly critical, very mobile with 6-7 dismounts and provides very good protection against higher calibre fire and RPGs.

How many thousands of MRAPs is the U.S. leaving in Afghanistan? If Iraq payed them to get them into the country it could be a good deal.

Also, looks to me like none of the IqA divisions are functioning well as combined-arms divisions. I know they are supposed to be combined-arms divisions, but I guess the years of neglect and lack of training is starting to show.

Regarding targets destroyed, it looks like there's no specific capability being targeted, just a comprehensive rolling-back of all of IS's capabilities, military and economic.

Seems like many countries are ramping up training infantry units the basics of infantry combat and they're being rapidly sent to the front, I've heard the training period being something like 6 weeks and does involve urban combat. If the 6 weeks figure is accurate, that most definitely is basic infantryman skills I believe.

Indeed, no specific target is being persecuted but the heavier stuff should be the easiest to target. Highly recommend looking at the Wiki page about Iraqi Army kit, it has fascinating links on the amount of kit lost. I think one of them was 52+ M198 155mm howitzers in total!

Also recommend looking up Operation Shader, the UK component of the intervention, on Wiki. Every air strike is detailed, usually including what aircraft, the target(s), the situation and weapons released. Some include the likes of JCBs being used to construct defences.

 

[John Fedup]

Agreed, wasn't Iraq well on the way to a serious number of Bradley IFVs before this crisis erupted? Seems - IMO - like it could be pretty handy if they got the extra armour packages and cage armour with it. 25mm up front which can open up T-55/T-72s, could probably get TOWs if they wanted but that's not exactly critical, very mobile with 6-7 dismounts and provides very good protection against higher calibre fire and RPGs.

How many thousands of MRAPs is the U.S. leaving in Afghanistan? If Iraq payed them to get them into the country it could be a good deal.




Seems like many countries are ramping up training infantry units the basics of infantry combat and they're being rapidly sent to the front, I've heard the training period being something like 6 weeks and does involve urban combat. If the 6 weeks figure is accurate, that most definitely is basic infantryman skills I believe.

Indeed, no specific target is being persecuted but the heavier stuff should be the easiest to target. Highly recommend looking at the Wiki page about Iraqi Army kit, it has fascinating links on the amount of kit lost. I think one of them was 52+ M198 155mm howitzers in total!

Also recommend looking up Operation Shader, the UK component of the intervention, on Wiki. Every air strike is detailed, usually including what aircraft, the target(s), the situation and weapons released. Some include the likes of JCBs being used to construct defences.

I have no idea how much armored kit was left in Iraq but I an guessing a mega-$htitload because it is expensive to ship it out and there was the desire to equip .the Iraqi army (a waste of time and money IMO). The problem was (and maybe still is)) the Iraqi army ran away and let IS help themselves. The good news is they (IS) don't know how to use this kit effectively nor do they have the support teams to keep the stuff working.

 

[RobWilliams]

I have no idea how much armored kit was left in Iraq but I an guessing a mega-$htitload because it is expensive to ship it out and there was the desire to equip .the Iraqi army (a waste of time and money IMO). The problem was (and maybe still is)) the Iraqi army ran away and let IS help themselves. The good news is they (IS) don't know how to use this kit effectively nor do they have the support teams to keep the stuff working.

I've found references to something like at least 2000 MRAPs.

I doubt it's as much of a problem now, I mean earlier in the crisis they were th defenders being routed by a pretty effective series of assaults. Whereas now the Iraqi Army is the one doing the attacking, they have more indigenous air power and the coalition pounding IS wherever they are located.

Ah, the issue about them not knowing how to work it may be true for the more complicated machines like M1's but if they've lost older Soviet era armour like T-55/T-72 or BMP-1s etc then it's extremely likely they have enough people in their ranks experienced enough to run those systems. But with respect to support teams you're right, Western tank forces fight with a long logistics tail and as much Soviet gear might be reliable etc it'll still need oils, lubricants and spare filters etc eventually.

Imagine the number of small arms and ammunition left behind/captured in the first days.

 

[STURM]

Do they have the stomach for it?

Well the militias certainly do have the stomach as they are the ones who stemmed the tide when IS went on the offensive months ago and they are the one propping up the regulars. A major problem with the regulars is not motivation or courage per say but quality and experience: quite a number of the chaps we see on the news are middle aged individuals who only joined up recently.

If I was an Iraqi commander I wouldn't rush in a take unnecessary casualties. I'd hope that over time the IS units in the city would have weakened. We also tend to assume that with U.S. airpower the situation in Tikrit will be the same as it was at Kolbane [i.e. IS will be unable to resupply and maneuver] but what if things turn out differently?

The battle for the Middle East's future begins in Yemen as Saudi Arabia jumps into the abyss - Middle East - World - The Independent

Saudi Arabia's airstrikes in Yemen are fuelling the Gulf's fire - Voices - The Independent

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-militants-will-not-be-defeated-10120917.html

 

[barney41]

CNN is reporting that Iraqi Government has declared Tikrit "liberated". If confirmed, then good news.
IIRC while all this was going on the US has been busy kitting out and training a couple of Iraqi Army Divisions for a push on Mosul, in the coming months. Hopefully lessons have been learned and will be put to good use.

 

[alexkvaskov]

...flankers and fulcrums.

Why does Iraq need fast jets? Granted their F-16 deal is hitting snags; but don't their circumstances and considerations merit prioritization of totally different equipment?

 

[RobWilliams]

Why does Iraq need fast jets? Granted their F-16 deal is hitting snags; but don't their circumstances and considerations merit prioritization of totally different equipment?

Depends, they're already being suitably up-armoured from recent purchases, I'm fairly sure the U.S. state department approved a 170 strong M1 buy. They're getting armour and the like from Russia too, but they could well be fed ip with the F-16 delays and if they can get aircraft from Russia at a good price and rapidly it'd be tempting for sure.

 

[bdique]

Agreed, wasn't Iraq well on the way to a serious number of Bradley IFVs before this crisis erupted? Seems - IMO - like it could be pretty handy if they got the extra armour packages and cage armour with it. 25mm up front which can open up T-55/T-72s, could probably get TOWs if they wanted but that's not exactly critical, very mobile with 6-7 dismounts and provides very good protection against higher calibre fire and RPGs.

How many thousands of MRAPs is the U.S. leaving in Afghanistan? If Iraq payed them to get them into the country it could be a good deal.

IFV crews will have to learn to work the MBTs to really bring out the best of both vehicle types, but that's probably not the most urgent thing now, especially considering the amount of logistics and training required to get an armoured fleet operational and effective. In any case, the infantry are being trained to fight alongside MBTs - harks back to the 'days of old', but if its effective, why not...this could suffice until a proper, modern armoured brigade could be set up.

Seems like many countries are ramping up training infantry units the basics of infantry combat and they're being rapidly sent to the front, I've heard the training period being something like 6 weeks and does involve urban combat. If the 6 weeks figure is accurate, that most definitely is basic infantryman skills I believe.

6 weeks of basic training, and 3 weeks 'rehearsal exercise.' Two brigades are up, and a third in the midst of being formed up - so there's at least one infantry division coming up soon. Definitely basic infantry skills, although there are some other training thrown in as well i.e. sniper, medic, logistics training. Looks like a pretty coherent build up of the 'counter-attack brigades.'

More here:Inside the Iraq mission: What our troops are doing

 

[Feanor]

Apparently Iraq is taking deliveries of T-72s from Russia. Obviously the tanks are used. Khlopotov speculates that they're T-72Bs from overhaul. The unloading is from a ship at Um-Kars, although a good source hinted that this might be the case earlier.

Gur Khan attacks!: Ирак отказалÑÑ Ð¾Ñ‚ "ÐбрамÑов" в пользу Т-72

 

[Feanor]

Apparently Iraq is taking deliveries of T-72s from Russia. Obviously the tanks are used. Khlopotov speculates that they're T-72Bs from overhaul. The unloading is from a ship at Um-Kars, although a good source hinted that this might be the case earlier.

Gur Khan attacks!: Ирак отказалÑÑ Ð¾Ñ‚ "ÐбрамÑов" в пользу Т-72

EDIT: It's unclear whether these photos are accurate, or not, they may depict Czech T-72Ms. But the information on T-72s from Russia is persistent. I suppose we'll have to wait on confirmation to be sure.

Meanwhile BREM-1 ARVs are also arriving, along with more TOS-1A. I don't know whether they're BREM-1M on a T-72 chassis, or a new BREM-1 on the T-90A chassis. The latter would make sense, as it would standardize a lot of components between the TOS-1A and the ARV fleet. As well as paving the way for future T-90 purchases.

http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2015/05/72_28.html

 

[RobWilliams]

The Iraqi foreign minister and the Brazilian defence minister met on June 2nd, the goal being military support from Brazil for the anti-IS campaign through potential cooperation and procurement.

Analysis: Brazil, Iraq defence cooperation talks could mean Brazilian exports - IHS Jane's 360

Brazil has a number of systems Iraq would find useful, namely the Super Tucano. The article goes on to list a number of Brazilian armoured vehicles and small arms/heavy weapons.

Not unsurprising, Iraq has been reasonably vocal recently about pushing that IS is a global rather than a regional/Western issue so it's not unreasonable to see them pushing for more global allies.

Brazil has some solid systems Iraq may be interested in & Brazil is heading towards implementing austerity policies and cutting the defence budget, any exports will certainly be welcomed.

 

[Waylander]

IIRC the Iraqis where quite happy with theor Hellfire equipped Cessnas.

Super Tucanos with Mavericks and LGBs abould come in handy, too. The more easy to maintain and operate the better.

 

[kato]

Didn't the UAE want to donate some Super Tucanos to Iraq?
UAE to donate Super Tucanos to Iraq - IHS Jane's 360

I think that deal was called off in March, but it might be that they're now going for the original source those aircraft would have come from...

 

[STURM]

Lets hope that all this new hardware and training provided to the Iraqis enables IS to be defeated. The pessimist in me however tells me that political solutions are also needed to defeat IS, including winning over the support of the Sunni population - many of whom do not support IS but distrust and fear the Shias. Another major problem is that the various countries trying to defeat IS are themselves divided over how to do it and need to coordinate their efforts. Unlike other countries, Iran actually has troops on the ground fighting IS, yet we still hear about the need to keep watch on Iran and to question its motives. Saudi off course would be better off using the RSAF on IS in Iraq rather than on the Houthis in Yemen but off course it's all aimed at weakening Iran and its proxy Houthis. As far as the Saudis are concerned, dealing with Iran is off far more importance than dealing with IS.

We hear time and time again [and rightly so] about civillians killed by Assad's forces but has any Western new agency or paper actually done a story on Yemeni civillians killed [for being the wrong place at the wrong time] by ordnance released by Saudi aircraft and those belonging to its allies? Then there is Syria; the situation there is linked to that in Iraq. The West, Turkey and the Sunni Arab states need to put aside - for the moment - their differences with Assad and focus on defeating IS and groups like it but off course this is not going to happen. A nightmare scenario would be be Assad's government/regime colllapsing and IS and groups like it gaining control of most of Syria. Then the Iranians and Assad will say '' I told you you so'' and the Gulf Arab states and Turkey will make urgent pleas for western ''boots on the ground''.

Off topic but the U.S. has announced a Hellfire sale to Lebanon to be fitted on Cessnas.

 

[bdique]

US questions Iraq's IS commitment US questions Iraq's commitment to fighting Islamic State - BBC News

Political commitment seen to be lacking. 7000 recruits now, but the plan was to get 24000 in by autumn.

Also, the issue of empowering Sunni tribes is mentioned.

This doesn't look good, honestly. I don't think IqA is the sort that can leverage on technology to empower their soldiers...so when you top that off with recruitment issues...isn't my idea of good news.

 

[John Fedup]

Lets hope that all this new hardware and training provided to the Iraqis enables IS to be defeated. The pessimist in me however tells me that political solutions are also needed to defeat IS, including winning over the support of the Sunni population - many of whom do not support IS but distrust and fear the Shias. Another major problem is that the various countries trying to defeat IS are themselves divided over how to do it and need to coordinate their efforts. Unlike other countries, Iran actually has troops on the ground fighting IS, yet we still hear about the need to keep watch on Iran and to question its motives. Saudi off course would be better off using the RSAF on IS in Iraq rather than on the Houthis in Yemen but off course it's all aimed at weakening Iran and its proxy Houthis. As far as the Saudis are concerned, dealing with Iran is off far more importance than dealing with IS.

We hear time and time again [and rightly so] about civillians killed by Assad's forces but has any Western new agency or paper actually done a story on Yemeni civillians killed [for being the wrong place at the wrong time] by ordnance released by Saudi aircraft and those belonging to its allies? Then there is Syria; the situation there is linked to that in Iraq. The West, Turkey and the Sunni Arab states need to put aside - for the moment - their differences with Assad and focus on defeating IS and groups like it but off course this is not going to happen. A nightmare scenario would be be Assad's government/regime colllapsing and IS and groups like it gaining control of most of Syria. Then the Iranians and Assad will say '' I told you you so'' and the Gulf Arab states and Turkey will make urgent pleas for western ''boots on the ground''.

Off topic but the U.S. has announced a Hellfire sale to Lebanon to be fitted on Cessnas.

Yep, and like General Powell said years ago, if you break it (Iraq), you own it! Needless to say the political class has run away from the "own it". This whole situation is a total fuster cluck.

 

[STURM]

Political commitment seen to be lacking. 7000 recruits now, but the plan was to get 24000 in by autumn.

No doubt the Iraqis need to do more but so does the U.S. and its allies/partners. For one, it's not enough jointly agreeing that IS must be defeated; there must be a common strategy amongst the countries involved. For IS to be defeated or severely weakened in Iraq it must be defeated or severely weakened in Syria. The problem is we have a cloud cuckoo land situation: certain countries want to defeat IS in Iraq but are hoping that Assad - who's fighting IS - be defeated by moderate rebels; problem here is that the moderates may not be as moderate as they potray but are also weaker and not as organised as IS. Another issue which has to be addressed is the position of the Sunni Gulf States; their focus is to defeat Assad - not IS - in order to isolate Iran. They would rather see Assad suffer more defeats on the battlefield, even if it benefits IS.

CETCOM and the Pentagon can display at the statistics and power point presentations they want but irrespective of how many IS fighters have been killed and how many structures and vehicles destroyed; the fact remains that although IS is not gaining more real estate, it's holding on to what it has and has no issues gaining more volunteers to its cause. There were reports that the U.S. was reluctant to provide air support to Shia militias working closely with Iranian adivisors as Iran would claim credit for any battlefield successes and that its influence in Iraq would grow. If true, this is silly and short sighted thinking as the Shia militias had have more success than the regular Iraqi army and Iran - courtesy of events that took place in 2003 - already has considerable influence in Iraq.

Syrian civil war: Jabhat al-Nusra's massacre of Druze villagers shows they're just as nasty as Isis - Commentators - Voices - The Independent


America siding with 'terrorists' like al-Nusra? It's not a conspiracy theory - Comment - Voices - The Independent

 

[Feanor]

It appears that a set of recent defeats and setbacks has put the Damascus regime in a precarious position. An emergency resupply effort was launched by Russia, requiring the Syrian Express to go into overdrive, delivering it's mysterious cargo. Oryx blog interestingly notes that the ships were so full that their cargo didn't fit in the cargo hold and some of the vehicle were visible on deck, revealing an unknown BTR-80 variant, and Kamaz trucks.

Now with the sighting of new vehicles inside Syria, the cargo isn't so mysterious any more. The BTR-82A and the Tigr (not Tigr-M) have been sighted in Syria. Both are very new Russian vehicles. There is a good chance that we will see other new Russian vehicles, and possibly artillery, delivered to Syria, in the coming months.

Of course the question of payment looms large. Whether this is military aid, or purchases by Assad, is crucial. If this is military aid, Russia has nearly infinite ability to deliver equipment of this sort. Not only do they have huge Soviet stockpiles (and BTR-80s can be remanufactured into BTR-82AMs at a fairly low cost) but AMZ and other ground-equipment manufacturers can spit out huge quantities of this sort of equipment. Guided weapons, modern command and control assets, etc. are all a different story, but when it comes to the basics Russia can prop up the Assad regime indefinitely. If, on the other hand, he is burning through some stockpile of currency to pay for this, the situation may be quite different.

Oryx Blog: From Russia with Love, Syria's BTR-82As
UPDATE: The Cargo On Russian Landing Ship Nikolay Filchenkov |
Военный Блог - Тигр в Сирии
Юрий ЛÑмин - БТÐ*-82Рв Сирии
bmpd - БТÐ*-82Рв Сирии

EDIT: I was under the impression that I had posted this earlier, but it appears I have not. Loyalist forces have been operating new Russian UAVs. Personally I wonder if they're being used together with the long-range rocket artillery that Russia has provided Assad.

http://spioenkop.blogspot.com/2015/07/from-ukraine-to-syria-russian-orlan-10.html

EDIT2: Another significant detail, the BTR-82A in question appears to be the only vehicle of the type being used (it's rather ad hoc force overall featuring a T-72, an MLRS on a pickup truck, a single 2S3 howitzer, and the BTR-82A). It's painted in Russian army camouflage colors, and carries a 111 number sign. This is a different type of number sign from Syrian army vehicles, and is identical to other markings of this type within the Russian Army. This vehicle may be supplied directly from the Ministry of Defense.

 

[stojo]

Russian jets in Syrian skies - Israel News, Ynetnews

According to this portal Russia is deploying in with its own troops in Syria, supposedly to fight ISIS. They are mentioning around 1000 troops, mostly technitians, instructors, etc....

There are some previous reports on "delivery" of MiG 31s to Syria. Since ISIS has no airforce that I heard of, it seems to me this is more of a move against Americans, who recently declared that they will attack "anyone" who goes against the "moderates" -- which actually means, they will strike Asad.

I cant imagine Russian MiG 31 shooting down American F 16, and vice - versa, it just seems to me as some sort of the deterrent move.

On the other hand, I think Washington would have nothing to complain about if this joint Russia - Assad - Iran venture actually gets directed against ISIS...

This conflict is sooo complicated.

 

[Feanor]

Russian jets in Syrian skies - Israel News, Ynetnews

According to this portal Russia is deploying in with its own troops in Syria, supposedly to fight ISIS. They are mentioning around 1000 troops, mostly technitians, instructors, etc....

There are some previous reports on "delivery" of MiG 31s to Syria. Since ISIS has no airforce that I heard of, it seems to me this is more of a move against Americans, who recently declared that they will attack "anyone" who goes against the "moderates" -- which actually means, they will strike Asad.

I cant imagine Russian MiG 31 shooting down American F 16, and vice - versa, it just seems to me as some sort of the deterrent move.

On the other hand, I think Washington would have nothing to complain about if this joint Russia - Assad - Iran venture actually gets directed against ISIS...

This conflict is sooo complicated.

And some commentators are saying that the BTR-82 in the video is Russian Army. There are claims that some of the yelling in the video is in Russia. To be honest I didn't make any of it out clearly enough, but here it is. To me more convincing is the paintjob and tactical number on the vehicle. There's also the use of Russian UAVs in Syria (two were downed earlier). It remains to be seen what's actually happening, but I wouldn't be surprised if Russia is stepping up direct involvement through military "advisers". They have a long history of doing this during the Cold War.

Oryx Blog: New evidence proves Russian military directly engaging in Syrian Civil War