War Against ISIS

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Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Some where captured relatively intact IIRC only to get blown up later by IS for propaganda purposes (and them being unable to operate them).

I doubt the Russians, Chinese or whoever is going to go through the hassel of dealing with IS if it is so much easier to just bribe some maintenance guys from one of the operators in the area.
 
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STURM

Well-Known Member
Waylander said:
I doubt the Russians, Chinese or whoever is going to go through the hassel of dealing with IS if it is so much easier to just bribe some maintenance guys from one of the operators in the area.
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Indeed. A much, much easier way would be to gain access to gear [assuming there was something of interest] that is operated by the Iraqis and do it via Iran.
 
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barney41

Member
The offensive to retake Tikrit has bogged down as ISIS resistance stiffens and Iraqi losses, mostly Shiite militia, mount. Looks like they are paying the price for a hastily planned operation haphazardly conducted with inadequately trained troops. The US can keep it's hands off for now IMO and let the lesson sink in that excluding them from the decision process for this operation wasn't smart.

Iraqi offensive for Tikrit stalls as casualties mount - The Washington Post
 
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STURM

Well-Known Member
They've made pretty good progress so far and it was expected that things would slow down a bit as they got closer to the centre of Tikrit. The Iraqis themselves have said that they will not rush things in order to avoid unnecessary casualties. I don't think it was hastily planned; I think they had a while to plan on how to go about it.

More importantly, what happens after they take Tikrit and start moving on to other IS occupied cities and towns? How will the Iraqi government go about winning over the Sunnis who are liberated from IS? What is the long term plan; especially given that the situation in Syria also plays a part in how things unfold in Iraq; something Iraqis have been saying for some time now but to deaf ears.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
RobWilliams said:
Canada could become the second NATO nation to bomb targets in Syria, the initial mission was due to last 6 months and will be extended by 1 year.

Canada plans to expand air strikes against IS militants - BBC News

The PM needs to have his motion pass the Commons but he has a majority hold so it's likely to pass.
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Harper is right on this issue and it may or may not work for him as an election positive in October. I just hope our aging CF-18s don't drop one of our guys into this hellhole.
 
Blackshoe

Blackshoe

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Meanwhile, it looks like a second portion of TOS-1A thermobaric MLRS (or heavy flamethrowers if you prefer) are headed to Iraq. This time the transpoter-loader vehicles are on a Kamaz 8x8 chassis rather then the same T-90S chassis that the earlier batch used.

Gur Khan attacks!: "Солнцепеки" на продажу

The combat employment of the first 3 must have been successful enough, that they want more. I wonder if any sufficiently detailed after-action reports will surface.
 
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peterAustralia

Member
Iranian T72s are now in action in Tikrit. Is unknown if they are crewed up Iranians or Iraqis. Also Iranian Su22 jets are now in action in Syria. Seems Iran's influence in the region is increasing. The geopolitical situation seems to have changed from a few years ago, now Iran is seemed by many in the west as an area of stability, in an area of unrest (seems weird even to me). I guess this makes western attacks on Iran even more unlikely, though it seems that that particular idea has been off the table for a long long time now. Link below

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/men...here-of-influence-iranian-t-72-tanks-in-iraq/
 
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barney41

Member
A
peterAustralia said:
Iranian T72s are now in action in Tikrit. Is unknown if they are crewed up Iranians or Iraqis. Also Iranian Su22 jets are now in action in Syria. Seems Iran's influence in the region is increasing. The geopolitical situation seems to have changed from a few years ago, now Iran is seemed by many in the west as an area of stability, in an area of unrest (seems weird even to me). I guess this makes western attacks on Iran even more unlikely, though it seems that that particular idea has been off the table for a long long time now. Link below

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/men...here-of-influence-iranian-t-72-tanks-in-iraq/
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The linked report is a couple of weeks old. The most recent developments has Iran withdrawing it‘s involvement in the Tikrit offensive as the US expands it's role to include air strikes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/27/world/middleeast/iraq-us-air-raids-islamic-state-isis.html?_r=0
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Meanwhile it seems that Iraq has received much more then was reported on. In 2014 Iraq was the second largest recipient of Russian weapons, beating out China, and losing out only to India. They got 9 Su-25s, 12 TOS-1A heavy flamethrowers, 6 Mi-28NE helos, and up to 10 Mi-35M helos. They've also begun to receive the Pantsyr-1S systems. Overall 1.7 bln in arms. There are also reports of an unknown number of Mi-17s, and talks on BMP-3s, Tor-M2Es, flankers and fulcrums. A big factor is the rapid delivery of weapons, in a situation where Iraq is in desperate need.

bmpd - Ирак Ñтал вторым поÑле Индии получателем роÑÑийÑкого Ð²Ð¾Ð¾Ñ€ÑƒÐ¶ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð² 2014 году

And the TOS-1A in action near Tikrit.

bmpd - ИракÑкий "Солнцепек"
 
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peterAustralia

Member
does anyone know why Iraq is spending money on Pantisir air defence systems when to the best of my knowledge IS has no air force? Why on earth are they spending money on Mig 29s. Su25s I could understand, but fast jets!!

My 2 cents worth is that they are better off buying simple armoured cars, like the AML 90, Fox etc... something with enough armour plate to handle rifle and machine gun fire, with maybe a 30mm or 23mm cannon. Something along those lines but a bit more modern, I know those examples are old. Some tanks would be good too, I hear they are getting old T55s up and running for a modest $30K to do the upgrade, not good against other tanks, but good against infantry.

In the military photos.net they say the most effective aircraft working in Iraq of late ,,, is .... the Cessna Caravan armed with hellfire missiles. Much cheaper to operate than F-16s and other fast jets.
 
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STURM

Well-Known Member
History (again) has repeated itself; Saudi and Egypt (again) are directly involved in Yemen but this time on the same side. Just like how the conflict in Syria eventually had a direct bearing on Iraq (the Iraqis were saying this 2-3 years ago but no one paid much attention) escalating events in Yemen will inevitably affect Iraq. It is telling that the Gulf Sunni states only put in a minimal effort in Iraq but seem to be pulling no stops when deploying air power in Yemen. Politics makes for strange bedfellows: the U.S, the Sunni Gulf states and Iran want to defeat IS in Iraq but in Syria, Lebanon and Yemen are supporting different sides and have different agendas. The U.S. is eager for a deal to reached with Iran over the nuclear issue but allies Saudi and Israel (both of which off course are not official chums) are opposed to such a deal and wants the U.S. to take a stronger position against Iran who played a crucial role (and continues to do so) in halting IS and bolstering the Iraqi government; the same Iran who continues to support Assad.
 
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bdique

Member
peterAustralia said:
does anyone know why Iraq is spending money on Pantisir air defence systems when to the best of my knowledge IS has no air force? Why on earth are they spending money on Mig 29s. Su25s I could understand, but fast jets!!
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All part of defense development plans laid down from before IS became a threat. These were not emergency purchases, but the steady rebuild of capabilities that have been lost since OIF.

peterAustralia said:
My 2 cents worth is that they are better off buying simple armoured cars, like the AML 90, Fox etc... something with enough armour plate to handle rifle and machine gun fire, with maybe a 30mm or 23mm cannon. Something along those lines but a bit more modern, I know those examples are old. Some tanks would be good too, I hear they are getting old T55s up and running for a modest $30K to do the upgrade, not good against other tanks, but good against infantry.
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You are underestimating IS here. Don't forget the scores of armoured vehicles raided from overrun Syrian and Iraqi bases. Also, you might want to get something that can survive IEDs or RPGs.

Lest we forget what the world is up against: https://youtu.be/np-l2GZk67I

peterAustralia said:
In the military photos.net they say the most effective aircraft working in Iraq of late ,,, is .... the Cessna Caravan armed with hellfire missiles. Much cheaper to operate than F-16s and other fast jets.
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The Combat Caravan, iirc, is limited in firepower.
 
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swerve

Super Moderator
STURM said:
History (again) has repeated itself; Saudi and Egypt (again) are directly involved in Yemen but this time on the same side. Just like how the conflict in Syria eventually had a direct bearing on Iraq (the Iraqis were saying this 2-3 years ago but no one paid much attention) ....
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And unfortunately for Iraq, one of the people not paying any attention was Nouri al-Maliki.

He was chiefly responsible for its defence policy as well as overall governance, & was more interested in promoting his own community at all costs than anything else, & didn't care if that weakened Iraq's defences.
 
RobWilliams

RobWilliams

Super Moderator
Staff member
bdique said:
You are underestimating IS here. Don't forget the scores of armoured vehicles raided from overrun Syrian and Iraqi bases. Also, you might want to get something that can survive IEDs or RPGs.

The Combat Caravan, iirc, is limited in firepower.
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The armour isn't the worrying part, they're being destroyed from the air. The U.S. Govt has released their figures on targets attacked up till March 18th, it makes interesting reading.

http://www.defense.gov/DODCMSShare/NewsStoryPhoto/2015-03/scr_150319-D-zz999-0319.jpg

Here's an earlier, and much more detailed, release from January this year.

http://www.talkradionews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Screen-shot-2015-01-07-at-12.34.46-PM.png

The small comfort is that whatever heavy kit they capture from Iraq, it's slowly being eroded by coalition air power.

They have vehicles capable of withstanding that, they seem to lack the ability to coordinate infantry, IFVs/AFVs, artillery, tanks and aircraft in a coherent structure. even then, slap some cage armour over every vehicle to add another layer of ROG protection. Combating IEDs comes down to identification/prevention just as much as protection.
 
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bdique

Member
RobWilliams said:
The armour isn't the worrying part, they're being destroyed from the air. The U.S. Govt has released their figures on targets attacked up till March 18th, it makes interesting reading.

http://www.defense.gov/DODCMSShare/NewsStoryPhoto/2015-03/scr_150319-D-zz999-0319.jpg

Here's an earlier, and much more detailed, release from January this year.

http://www.talkradionews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Screen-shot-2015-01-07-at-12.34.46-PM.png

The small comfort is that whatever heavy kit they capture from Iraq, it's slowly being eroded by coalition air power.

They have vehicles capable of withstanding that, they seem to lack the ability to coordinate infantry, IFVs/AFVs, artillery, tanks and aircraft in a coherent structure. even then, slap some cage armour over every vehicle to add another layer of ROG protection. Combating IEDs comes down to identification/prevention just as much as protection.
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Rob, thanks for the links, indeed IS armour is not the issue - to the coalition at least. I was thinking in terms of the OP's comments about IqA getting more 'armoured cars'. It's basically the wrong class of vehicle to be in the frontline fight against IS. IFVs, MBTs, that I can understand, but as you say, co-ordination is another matter altogether. From my experience, lot of training has to be done in order for an armoured inf platoon to fight properly, I can't imagine what the state of the IqA's armoured forces are like.

Also, looks to me like none of the IqA divisions are functioning well as combined-arms divisions. I know they are supposed to be combined-arms divisions, but I guess the years of neglect and lack of training is starting to show.

Regarding targets destroyed, it looks like there's no specific capability being targeted, just a comprehensive rolling-back of all of IS's capabilities, military and economic.
 
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