Putin made a strategic acquisition and stated that Russia owns the IP for the phat ants
Royal New Zealand Air Force
- Thread starter Lucasnz
- Start date
Thanks for that. Definitely would explain it and doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Like the auto rotor folding and the FLIR. However they did buy the good quality winches instead of the standard ones that came with the aircraft.
Thanks ZA. And well done Ron Mark too. Finally , NZG starts getting their A into G! Far, far too late though. It is going to take at least a couple more days just to sail there.
Minister Brownlee said the NH90s were not suitable for use in Vanuatu. This is strange - the RAN doesn't seem to agree - an MRH90 is being deployed on HMAS Tobruk (here). I don't see why they can't be ferried over on Canterbury and then operated from shore - which has been the intended mode of operation since Canterbury was conceived. If NH90s are out, why not UH-1Hs then? Have we not been training all helicopter pilots for deck operations via the AW109s (for the last 5 years)? It's 2015: the year that the JATF is supposed to be ready.
I hope in time there is a full Select Committee inquiry into this mess. It has been a very poor look so far.
Chis73
Talking if Der Fuhrer Putin, I see that a specialist reckons that Der Fuhrer may no longer be as manly as he once was. Apparently at the moment he has the gait of a man who has just undergone a prostate procedure and the look of someone on steroids.
Zero Alpha
New Member
I get the impression it was the Vanuatu government that was shagging around. NZ can't just deploy forces without an invite.
It's important to look at the bigger picture. If NH90s were deployed and operated from land, they need to be fuelled somehow. Landing on the ship might not be an option with the sea state. At around 4 tonnes of fuel per load, operating them for any length of time is going to severely reduce fuel available on the island for anything else, or mean that fuel would need to take the place of relief supplies on flights to the island. Fuel could be be transferred to tankers and to shore via landing craft, but again that means something else can't be transported with the same space. It's entirely possible that there is already sufficient helicopter support in the country and a Seasprite is sufficient.
People tend to think that disasters all require lots of helicopters. One or two well-tasked assets is often sufficient. Look at the Christchurch earthquakes -Hagley Park had 14 helicopters sitting on it at one stage - all unused. Complete waste of resources and a major distraction for incident managers who kept getting asked by media and politicians why they weren't being used.
While the NH90's are not going, there is one other interesting deployment which was announced alongside the announcement that Canterbury was on her way...
It will be interesting to see how useful it ends up, and might up the chances of KingAirs being procured for the dual MEPT and low-level maritime patrol
+1, you have to be invited in at the approp level
it's an " it all depends" scenario
eg HQJOC go through a a form of post op analysis after every natural disaster, and it is still a relatively black art
it does require a whole pile of joint synergy with military and civil assets and the locals have basically no experience in dealing with a ND of this magnitude
In the case of Australia we also have the luxury of being able to deploy packed up rotors via the C-17's so its a slow evolution which will be critically informed by the in theatre planners and loggies.
the deployment of any assets in there has to revolve around how they will be supported and maintained as well - so there will be lots of mumbling happening in the background.
if there is a need to surge they will, but prev natural disaster experiences will have informed how we deal with this and a necessity to have the flexibility to change the mix as it pans out.
NZDEF will be undertaking similar exercises with NZG central agencies
Gracie1234
Well-Known Member
It was stated the Seasprites would be deployed. Does anyone know how many? Depending on what the activities are, my question is. Can the Seasprites do all that is required?
The wired / non wired issue is a non-sequitor.
1 Squadron operates 18 F model Hornets and 6 Squadron, the training Squadron operates 6 (on paper, not allowing for maintenance etc).
When the Growlers arrive, 1 Squadron will take on the training role as well as it's operational role and will gain those 6 Shornets whilst 6 takes on the EW role and operates 12 Growlers.
None of them are sitting around idle, for just whoever might need them...
I think you'll find that it will be a multi-nation co-ord effort. ie platforms will be utilised in the gaps and areas needed - no point sending in a 90 where a seasprite will do and vice versa
natural disaster support tends to be be a co-ord effort so as to minimise duplication of effort and so as to maximise platform utility and local reqs
eg, Australia NZ and France have assets in place, so some kind of co-ord will be in train and in consultation with the Govt (as they approve entry and assets in country in the first place)
and then there is the NGO side of things....
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-...of-aid-coordination-after-cyclone-pam/6333676
Nick underscore
Member
Gf, are you sure that is correct? I thought the dispute relates to design IP. Antanov makes about $200mio per annum through the An-124 ongoing lease structure w/ NATO.
I understand Antanov is still Ukrainian owned, could be wrong.
as I understand it Putin was arguing that the phat ants were russian IP and he intended getting them made in russian plants rather than ukraine
I never kept the original links but it was initially sent to me via my daily alerts about 12 months ago
Everything I've seen says that Antonov & all its facilities in Ukraine (HQ, design bureau, aircraft plant in Kiev, etc) are owned by the Ukrainian state. Russia may have taken over some peripheral facilities in Crimea, & any operations in Russia, but that's all.
Nick underscore
Member
Cheers Gf, curious
Yep, I was under the same impression, its yearly earning were ~$300-400mio (2013/14). Last I heard, is Ukraine Govt wanted a radical internal mgmt restructure to be implemented.
The only issues relating to 'ownership' was the ongoing arguement by the RF, that some of the important Antonov IP designs are theirs (i.e An-70, An-124).
I doubt this is correct, the Antonov Design Bureau is a Ukrainian State owned company as is the production facility Kiev Aviation Plant Aviant in Kiev.
Aviastar-SP in Ulyanovsk which can produce the An-124 is owned by United Aircraft Corporation and has been since long before the current situation. The An-124 was built in 2 locations.
If Russians did own Antonov I'm sure the current Govt would have nationalised them.
Which is Ukranian speak for flogging off to an oligarch.
According to wiki the Aviastar-SP plant has been refurbishing the Russian Airforce An-124's and was supposed to start construction of 10 new frames.
Nick underscore
Member
You keep feeling the need eh?
100% true, but last I heard, to make it economcially viable for Aviaster-SP, they needed 40+ a/c orders on the books, to just breakeven. Note; I believe RF ordered 20 new models, as did a Russian civilian airline, which ordered single digits (6-8)
Key componets are still made in Ukraine and recent events, suspended the joint-project and thereby production.
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I heard it was 2 frames onboard CY. They did this a year or two ago as well on an ex moving building equipment onto atolls so that training will now come true. With the extra numbers now CY can embark 2 sprites more regularly if needed, bit of a stretch before with just the 5.
I was thinking in terms of what may happen once 1Sqn reequips with F-35s (whether they be A or Bs) and the F/A-18Fs become surplus to requirements. My assumption was 6 Sqn would retain the Growlers plus a number of Fs (logically the pre-wired ones) for training meaning the remaining Fs would possibly be available for transfer to NZ.The wired / non wired issue is a non-sequitor.
1 Squadron operates 18 F model Hornets and 6 Squadron, the training Squadron operates 6 (on paper, not allowing for maintenance etc).
When the Growlers arrive, 1 Squadron will take on the training role as well as it's operational role and will gain those 6 Shornets whilst 6 takes on the EW role and operates 12 Growlers.
None of them are sitting around idle, for just whoever might need them...