Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[Volkodav]

The national security cutter is hideously expensive for what it is, i.e. basically OPV systems in a frigate hull, giving it the same capability of an ANZAC, even in its un- upgraded form (which is much more capable than a NSC), would make it even more expensive.

On platform size the old adage of steel is cheap and air is free still applies.. I know increased size means increased weight and that can increase fuel burn and hence operating cost but increased length for a given beam can improve hydrodynamic flow improving fuel burn among other things. So it's not really size that drives platform price but the systems installed that do and a larger platform generally has greater growth margins, as well as providing easier (hence cheaper) access for maintenance and upgrade.

 

[recce.k1]

AFAIK the Seasprite can operate from both the RNZN frigates and OPV's, the major difference being that the OPV's lack any sort of magazine so the Seasprites would be essentially unarmed.

As for fastroping... The Seasprites appear too small and constricted for a boarding party to safely lifted. While the NH90 is plenty large for such mission, they are too large to operate from all RNZN vessels except Canterbury, or perhaps lilypad on the frigates.

I suspect that the 109's are also too small to safely fastrope a large enough boarding party to be safe/effective.

Until the RNZN has assets which would allow effective use of fastroping I think it premature to worry about the skillset.

Cheers Tod, your last point is especially pertinent. Looking ahead then, to a potential 3rd OPV acquisition*, it will be interesting if Defence planners are considering the need to accommodate and operate a larger helicopter eg at least NH-90/NFH-90 or Merlin size (and hopefully with enough additional space for a complimentary UAV). Which could then allow fast-roping capability to be introduced if deemed necessary (perhaps in light of the recent Southern Ocean incident)?

After-all the Seasprite is primarily the ANZAC Frigate helo (airframe numbers and technology/capability wise), so there seems to be scope for a type better suited to patrol vessel (non full-on combat) requirements.

According to APDR (Pg 36), a potential 3rd OPV acquisition could happen a lot sooner than perhaps was envisaged. It seems the former DefMin was expecting to take the proposal to Cabinet mid-2015 to allow for a 2019 delivery.

* Perhaps the bean counters are supportive. From this article: "Realising significant operational savings from OPV operations since 2010, the acquisition of a third "Otago" class OPV is being discussed. Costs over time show the OPV is better aligned to regional operational and extended patrol requirements".

Hopefully NZDF are looking at least at an "improved" Otago class OPV type or better still a larger design to allow for sustained operations including outside of our immediate SW Pacific and Southern Ocean regions (eg Coalition support in SE Asia or beyond).

 

[40 deg south]

http://www.aspistrategist.org.au/wp...11/OMT-Dansh-Frigate-Programme-April-2014.pdf

Here is some light reading for Ngati - a brochure from OMT on the Danish frigate programme.

Interesting reading, although probably needs to be take with a grain or two of salt, like any advertising.

 

[40 deg south]

Here is an oiler/replenishment ship that has slipped under the radar. Cost is claimed to be a very reasonable US$130 million, and it is very heavily armed for this type of vessel.

Taiwan commissions 20,000-tonne combat support ship - IHS Jane's 360

Panshih was built by state-owned Kaohsiung-based shipbuilder CSBC Corporation at a cost of USD130 million. Construction began in 2011 and the ship was launched in 2013.

According to the Ministry of National Defense (MND), Panshih is a multirole vessel and will be used as a transport, maritime rescue, and humanitarian assistance vessel.

Defence officials say the navy will begin training personnel this month and that the vessel will enter full operational service by March.

Panshih is 196 m long and 25.2 m wide and has a full load displacement of 20,000 tonnes. It can carry a crew of up to 165 and has a range of 8,000 n miles. Prior to its delivery, the RoCN had only one operational supply ship, Wuyi , which entered service in 1990.

Panshih fleet oiler
Defence Technology has a few more details here.

 

[40 deg south]

Frigate’s new combat systems find international interest | Vanguard Magazine

Found this on the LockMart Canada site. Gives a bit more info on the frigate upgrade, from a Canadian point of view.

 

[40 deg south]

Another piece in the upgrade jigsaw.

SharpEye Radar Ordered for NZ Frigates

As part of the Lockheed Martin Canada prime contract for the Frigate Systems Upgrade project, a contract has been awarded to Kelvin Hughes to supply SharpEye radars and with an Agile Tracker to the New Zealand (NZ) Ministry of Defense.

Kelvin Hughes will supply its S-Band solid state upmast 2D navigation and surveillance radar SharpEye, for two ship sets along with their tactical Naval MantaDigital display software and processors. The NZ Ministry of Defense has also selected Kelvin Hughes’ agile tracker option providing advanced target tracking capability for low level air and surface based targets.

Manufacturers site
Naval and Coast Guard Surveillance Systems

 

[kiwi in exile]

Another piece in the upgrade jigsaw.

SharpEye Radar Ordered for NZ Frigates

Manufacturers site
Naval and Coast Guard Surveillance Systems

SharpEye was confirmed a while ago.
Its all written up in Navy Today #179 from June 2014, and an issue of APDR from around the same time. All the systems are listed if you want to go have a look.
Looks pretty good to me. Not intimately familiar with the ins and outs of the tender process but was hoping to see the Aussie CEAFAR radar as part of the suite.

Cheers

 

[40 deg south]

SharpEye was confirmed a while ago.
Its all written up in Navy Today #179 from June 2014, and an issue of APDR from around the same time. All the systems are listed if you want to go have a look.
Looks pretty good to me. Not intimately familiar with the ins and outs of the tender process but was hoping to see the Aussie CEAFAR radar as part of the suite.

Cheers

kiwi
Thanks for the reminder - I looked at that issue of Navy Today when it came out, but had forgotten some of the listed items. Still encouraging to see a steady stream of orders placed a year out from the installation phase.
I'm also intrigued by the decision not to slot into the Aussie ANZAC upgrade programme including CEAFAR. I'm sure the cost was a big part of it, but I wonder what conclusions RNZN came to on the different fit-outs on offer?

On an entirely different topic, does anyone know what is happening with the Littoral Operations Support Capability project? A RFI for the combined Resolution/Manawanui replacement was issued in late 2013, but the project has subsequently disappeared of the MinDef Acquisitions page.

 

[swerve]

I can't remember where, but I'm pretty sure that somewhere I saw a mention of the topweight problems & resulting ship performance issues the RAN had to deal with as being something the RNZN wanted to avoid.

 

[40 deg south]

https://twitter.com/CAF_NZ/status/573222444586020864

NZ Navy has unwrapped their late Christmas presents.

 

[Cadredave]

https://twitter.com/CAF_NZ/status/573222444586020864

NZ Navy has unwrapped their late Christmas presents.

RNZAF owned RNZN operated well done team on a seamless project, Ngati good come back on twitter.

 

[40 deg south]

RNZAF owned RNZN operated well done team on a seamless project, Ngati good come back on twitter.

Correction duly noted!

Agree that this looks to be another smartly executed acquisition, with good teamwork from light and dark blue forces.

Now on to the next challenges; airlift renewal and Endeavor replacement.

 

[ASSAIL]

Correction duly noted!

Agree that this looks to be another smartly executed acquisition, with good teamwork from light and dark blue forces.

Now on to the next challenges; airlift renewal and Endeavor replacement.

Rhetorical question - why is it that 90/100 acquisitions from the US run smoothly and, mostly (in Oz case) the opposite is true when acquiring elsewhere.
We're all slow learners.

 

[40 deg south]

Rhetorical question - why is it that 90/100 acquisitions from the US run smoothly and, mostly (in Oz case) the opposite is true when acquiring elsewhere.
We're all slow learners.

Hmmm. Not sure the ideal place to make this claim is following a couple of posts on Seasprite...

 

[ASSAIL]

Hmmm. Not sure the ideal place to make this claim is following a couple of posts on Seasprite...

I was probably being too oblique with that answer. The point being that NZ successfully purchased Seasprites which met the capability requirement in a timely and cost effective manner. The RAN experience with that helo was not the platform's shortcoming but simply the wrong choice and congrats to you across the ditch for making the right one.
Other purchases by Oz, MRH 90, Tiger, F100, and much more all could have been US equivalents and would have been so much less problematic and costly.

My experience as an old CFA DDG hand has made me contemptuous of alternatives around at the time and nothing in recent history has persuaded me otherwise.
All talk and promise of super capability and rarely delivered on time and on budget.

 

[RegR]

I was probably being too oblique with that answer. The point being that NZ successfully purchased Seasprites which met the capability requirement in a timely and cost effective manner. The RAN experience with that helo was not the platform's shortcoming but simply the wrong choice and congrats to you across the ditch for making the right one.
Other purchases by Oz, MRH 90, Tiger, F100, and much more all could have been US equivalents and would have been so much less problematic and costly.

My experience as an old CFA DDG hand has made me contemptuous of alternatives around at the time and nothing in recent history has persuaded me otherwise.
All talk and promise of super capability and rarely delivered on time and on budget.

I guess if it ain't broke don't fix it...........just get a new one, but then again no reward without risk. I suppose someone has to be first to try new tech to improve, should hopefully smooth itself out overtime and fingers crossed become good bits of kit.

At least Aus can to a point afford (literally) a few balls ups, us, not so much.

 

[recce.k1]

RNZ News had a report yesterday with the CN confirming that there is to be a defence white paper this year and a timeframe for deciding on the ANZAC Frigate replacements. It also looks like the RNZN may be preparing to advance the littoral warfare support vessel case to Govt to replace HMNZS Manawanui very soon.

Navy considers ships' future

Updated at 8:51 pm on 9 March 2015

The navy is considering its options for replacing its two frigates beyond 2030 - and the future of diving and mine counter-measures support ship, HMNZS Manawanui.

The Chief of Navy, Rear Admiral Jack Steer, said the issue would be included in the Defence White Paper due at the end of this year.

The frigates, Te Mana and Te Kaha, came into service for New Zealand in the 1990s.

Rear Admiral Steer said the navy would consider what it needed to meet the Government's requirements.

He said decisions about what could replace the frigates would be strongly signalled within the next six years, and any proposal would be very expensive.

Navy considers future of dive ship

The navy is also considering the future of its diving and mine counter-measures support ship, HMNZS Manawanui.

The Manawanui has been used for a number of missions, including operations in Tonga, Kiribati and the Solomon Islands.

The navy already has permission to replace its tanker, HMNZS Endeavour, and is now seeking the same approval for the Manawanui.

Rear Admiral Steer said a decision about replacing the ships was necessary, as was deciding what to replace them with.

He said both boats were nearing the end of their service lives.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/268205/navy-considers-ships'-future

 

[40 deg south]

I was probably being too oblique with that answer. The point being that NZ successfully purchased Seasprites which met the capability requirement in a timely and cost effective manner. The RAN experience with that helo was not the platform's shortcoming but simply the wrong choice and congrats to you across the ditch for making the right one.
Other purchases by Oz, MRH 90, Tiger, F100, and much more all could have been US equivalents and would have been so much less problematic and costly.

My experience as an old CFA DDG hand has made me contemptuous of alternatives around at the time and nothing in recent history has persuaded me otherwise.
All talk and promise of super capability and rarely delivered on time and on budget.

My take on it is a bit different. I think the key difference is that US orders have generally been mature products coming off existing production lines. Because of the scale of the US military and their decades-long production runs, many US products have had the bugs well and truely worked out before they are exported.

In contrast, the fragmented nature of Eropean miitaries and much smaller productions runs mean that products have often been exported that are very far from 'mature'.

A good example is the NH90, which both NZ and Australia have struggled to introduce into service. But overlooked in this mess has been NZ's other helicopter purchase, the Italian-built AW109 selected for training and light utility use. It came in on time, on budget and with minimal fuss. Australia's new training machine, the EC135, will hopefully have a similarly smooth introduction.

For me, the key isn't buying USA vs. buying European, but buying mature products vs, developmental ones.

 

[40 deg south]

RNZ News had a report yesterday with the CN confirming that there is to be a defence white paper this year and a timeframe for deciding on the ANZAC Frigate replacements. It also looks like the RNZN may be preparing to advance the littoral warfare support vessel case to Govt to replace HMNZS Manawanui very soon.

Great news on both fronts, recce.

I was starting to wonder if they would shelve the long-anticipated DWP2015 on the grounds that the Mid-point Rebalancing Review had already covered the ground. Good to see that wiser heads have prevailed, and there will presumably be an opportunity for public input.

 

[40 deg south]

New Zealand Navy inaugurates indoor seamanship training facility - IHS Jane's 360

The Royal New Zealand Navy (RNZN) has officially opened a new indoor training facility for seamanship training of junior sailors, the service announced on 9 March.

Strangely, I can't see anything on the Navy website.