Russian Air Force News & Discussion

[Haavarla]

Very slow induction rate of Su-35. How big of an advantage is Su-35 vs. Su-30 SM

Let me put this into context for you.
In 2014 KnAAZ produced 8 Su-30M2 and 12 Su-35S.
That equals 20 flying airframes.

In 2012 KnAAZ produced 12 Su-27SM3, 4 Su-30M2 and 8 Su-35S.
That equals 24 flying airframes.

Not sure about any export Flankers in 2012-14, but they come on top of domestic Flankers.

Still you could say, its not a whole lot. BUT, the Russian State orders are not that big, so it makes no sense what so ever to have a higher production output.
The whole idea with those domestic Su-35S produced by KnAAZ, is to try and catch further export orders, so in a way, they are better of with a slower production output.

 

[Feanor]

So the Su-27 family production for this year.

24 Su-35S (12 were late handovers from last years' contract but the physical handover came this year)
21 Su-30SM (VVS and AVMF)
8 Su-30M2
18 Su-34

They also got 10 MiG-29K/KUB, 20 Yak-130, 1 Tu-214ON, 4 An-148-100E, 2 An-140-100.

bmpd - ПоÑтавки военных Ñамолетов МиниÑтерÑтву обЀоны РоÑÑии в 2014 году

 

[Feanor]

Well the VVS is getting two Il-96 re-fitted as mid-air refuelers. Idiocy, in my opinion.

bmpd - ПодробноÑти про Ñамолеты-заправщики на базе Ил-96-400Т

And the fourth Il-38N.

bmpd - ЧетвÐртый Ил-38Рпо контракту 2012 года

 

[Feanor]

Well the VVS is getting two Il-96 re-fitted as mid-air refuelers. Idiocy, in my opinion.

bmpd - ПодробноÑти про Ñамолеты-заправщики на базе Ил-96-400Т

And the fourth Il-38N.

bmpd - ЧетвÐртый Ил-38Рпо контракту 2012 года

 

[swerve]

The idiocy was in buying Il-76s configured for this & AEW when the Il-96 was available.

Those bad past decisions mean that Russia now has only bad choices: buy the aircraft best-suited for the tasks, but operate it in small numbers alongside a larger number of aircraft worse-suited for them, or stick with the inferior (in these roles) aircraft.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Well the VVS is getting two Il-96 re-fitted as mid-air refuelers. Idiocy, in my opinion.

bmpd - ПодробноÑти про Ñамолеты-заправщики на базе Ил-96-400Т

"The new tanker aircraft Il-96-400TZ will be able to transfer more than 65 tons (IL-78M 40 tons) of fuel at a distance of up to 3500 km (Il-78M 2000 km). Universal aviation refueling systems ORM-1, proven on existing combat aircraft tankers Il-78/78М, will be installed on the aircraft."

So, maybe its not such a bad idea....
65 tons of fuel at a distance of up to 3500 km, comparable with the A330 MRTT (65.000 kg (143,000 lb) at 1000 nmi (1852 km) with 2 hours on station).

 

[Feanor]

The idiocy was in buying Il-76s configured for this & AEW when the Il-96 was available.

Those bad past decisions mean that Russia now has only bad choices: buy the aircraft best-suited for the tasks, but operate it in small numbers alongside a larger number of aircraft worse-suited for them, or stick with the inferior (in these roles) aircraft.

It's complicated industrial politics. The Il-76 was going into production again as part of the Il-476 project, so it looked like it would make sense to use it for all the other roles as well. Given that they're also flying the Tu-214 for various special roles (ELINT, EW, observation for the Open Skies mission, special government command posts) three aircraft would be a little wasteful. And of course transitioning from the Il-76 to the Il-476 is easy. They're very similar, in many respects identical. Transitioning from the Il-76 to the Il-96 is a whole different story.

But I think buying 2 Il-96 refuelers is idiocy. And the Ministry of Defense doesn't want them. This is a case where the aircraft are sitting at the factory with no customers, so the government bought them. Originally there were 3 and all were meant to be special planes for the MoD, but Shoygu basically said that he didn't need three VIP birds for himself, so the other two became refuelers.

"The new tanker aircraft Il-96-400TZ will be able to transfer more than 65 tons (IL-78M 40 tons) of fuel at a distance of up to 3500 km (Il-78M 2000 km). Universal aviation refueling systems ORM-1, proven on existing combat aircraft tankers Il-78/78М, will be installed on the aircraft."

So, maybe its not such a bad idea....
65 tons of fuel at a distance of up to 3500 km, comparable with the A330 MRTT (65.000 kg (143,000 lb) at 1000 nmi (1852 km) with 2 hours on station).

Well like Swerve said, if they planned to transition all the military heavies to the Il-96 platform, that would make sense. It's a good plane, in and of itself. This, however, doesn't.

 

[vince24]

Hi

Any news about a real fox 3 missile deal for the Russian aviation ? In siginificant numbers I mean. I am quite amazed that they spend so much effort in getting so many new/modernized aircraft types in service, and they don't seem to really care about loading these new aircrafts with modern air-to-air missiles...

Speaking about fox 3 missile, do we know about the feedbacks from armies which have really used the R-77 operationally, e.g. India. Are they happy with it ?

Everything in the military communication of Russia seems to be about numbers and showing off, rather than really getting planes that rule the sky, i.e. with real combat efficiency, beyond public specifications.

Also do we start to see the effect of the financial crisis on procurement plans ? I guess they will try to hide it, but the experts will surely be able to see the signs of a slow-down ?

 

[barney41]

Russia has drastically cut the number of PAK FA jets it expected to buy by 2020 from 52 to just 12.
Reason cited is affordability.



Russian Air Force to buy fewer PAK FA fighter aircraft | Russia & India Report

 

[StobieWan]

Interesting - I wonder how this impact the Indian end of the deal and how the engine developments are going ? 12 by 2020 isn't much - that's very low rate production so they'll be fearfully expensive compared to the original estimates.

 

[Feanor]

Interesting - I wonder how this impact the Indian end of the deal and how the engine developments are going ? 12 by 2020 isn't much - that's very low rate production so they'll be fearfully expensive compared to the original estimates.

It's LRIP and at a snails pace. But India is only set to receive 3 early birds by 2020, so maybe not affected that much overall. It remains to be seen. The rumors are that the real reason for the cutbacks are technological problems.

Meanwhile a contract for the 2 Il-96 tankers signed.

bmpd.livejournal.com/1126592.html

And an interesting interview with an officer from the 14th Guards Fighter Rgt flying the MiG-29SMT. They have flown sorties due to the Ukrainian crisis, and are slated to participate in Airdarts this year. If someone is interested I'll try to find time and translate the entire interview.

bmpd.livejournal.com/1135680.html

A MiG-35 contract is about to be signed, with deliveries possibly as early as next year.

ВВС Ð*оÑÑии закупит партию многофункциональных иÑтребителей МиГ-35

A new long-range missile for the S-300V4 has been tested and is accepted for service. Personally I'm still not sure why they've retained the V variant, when the S-400 is in serial production.

bmpd - Ðа вооружение принÑта ракета дальнего дейÑÑ‚Ð²Ð¸Ñ Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð—Ð*К С-300Ð’4

And An-148 production is continuing despite the situation with Ukraine.

«Очередной Ðн-148 Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¤Ð¡Ð‘ Ð*оÑÑии» в блоге «Фотофакты» - Сделано у наÑ

Finally the PAK-TA project is taking shape, with transport planes slated to carry 80-160 tonns, including the new Armata tanks. Though to be honest, it might be a bit utopian. Also the new planes are supposed to be supersonic.

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - ТранÑпортник под "Ðрмату"
http://r-force.livejournal.com/101797.html

Tu-22M3 bombers are planned for rebasing to Crimea. Though given the critically small numbers of aircraft available, I have to question the wisdom of the move.

ЧаÑÑ‚ÑŒ бомбардировщиков Ту-22Ðœ3 будет передиÑлоцирована в Крым

 

[StobieWan]

I wouldn't be surprised if there were genuine (and understandable) technical issues with the jet at this time - the schedule they had laid out seemed very aggressive, particularly since they had effectively three prototypes flying, with no production jets in the air at all.

We'll see.

 

[ADMk2]

I wouldn't be surprised if there were genuine (and understandable) technical issues with the jet at this time - the schedule they had laid out seemed very aggressive, particularly since they had effectively three prototypes flying, with no production jets in the air at all.

We'll see.

But, but the internet told us this thing was amazing and completely outclasses everything.

Only the F-35 has problems doesn't it? Everything else is perfect, I read somewhere...

 

[Haavarla]

Not so fast..
I'm under the impression that the deal for 12 T-50 are only a premiliary shuffeling of VVS new assets, like Su-35S, Su-30M2, Su-30SM, Su-34, Mig-29K, Mig-29SMT.
110 Mig-31BM upgrade, etc etc upgrade programs.

its a step down according to earlier reports, but lets be honest, they have been very vague.. in the past, some general or Rozgin blowing hot steam out of their @ss..

At least this is official.
Three more Prototypes T-50 this year. That means, they allready started on several pre-production T-50 airframes over at KnAAZ as we speak.

I see no need for smugness, the T-50 program is advancing. The idz 30 engine is in test bench, how long untill it first installed on Su-30 flying lab?

there will be several flying T-50 with AESA radar doing weapons trials with new weapons, this year.

Reports suggest the cause of fire on T-50-5 has been detected and corrected, and that there are no Areodynamc or structural design flaws pluage the program. Unlike other program where a high number of units are allready flying with design flaws.. say no more.

Well i for one is not laughing..

 

[Haavarla]

Pardon a small OT.

But yesterday i heard on the news that the whole F-35A deal with LM will cost Norway an further increase of NOK 14 BILLION.

Strong $ and weak NOK is a partial explenation here..

As a Norwegian tax paying citizen, i'm definitly not lauging.. ��

 

[barney41]

Pardon a small OT.

But yesterday i heard on the news that the whole F-35A deal with LM will cost Norway an further increase of NOK 14 BILLION.

Strong $ and weak NOK is a partial explenation here..

As a Norwegian tax paying citizen, i'm definitly not lauging.. ��

Got a link?

 

[John Fedup]

Norway won't be the only customer hit by the rise of the US dollar. Much of the debate in Canada was about the JSF's cost and our dollar was at par back then. We now have a 80 cent dollar. The exchange loss wipes out any cost improvements in the program then some. As the F-18 is the only likely alternative its cost is also going to be higher. The result will be fewer jets, regardless of selection.

 

[StobieWan]

Not so fast..
I'm under the impression that the deal for 12 T-50 are only a premiliary shuffeling of VVS new assets, like Su-35S, Su-30M2, Su-30SM, Su-34, Mig-29K, Mig-29SMT.
110 Mig-31BM upgrade, etc etc upgrade programs.

its a step down according to earlier reports, but lets be honest, they have been very vague.. in the past, some general or Rozgin blowing hot steam out of their @ss..

At least this is official.
Three more Prototypes T-50 this year. That means, they allready started on several pre-production T-50 airframes over at KnAAZ as we speak.

I see no need for smugness, the T-50 program is advancing. The idz 30 engine is in test bench, how long untill it first installed on Su-30 flying lab?

there will be several flying T-50 with AESA radar doing weapons trials with new weapons, this year.

Reports suggest the cause of fire on T-50-5 has been detected and corrected, and that there are no Areodynamc or structural design flaws pluage the program. Unlike other program where a high number of units are allready flying with design flaws.. say no more.

Well i for one is not laughing..

The T-50 doesn't have a production engine in the air yet and you can't know if the T50 has any aerodynamic or structural flaws because they've not accumulated enough test hours yet - the reasoning behind concurrency on the F35 was to get enough aircraft flying to get data back. The alternative is to have a small fleet of protoypes which would mean less rework but a much slower pace of testing - and if one of them has a major outage, you lose a large chunk of testing time - which is what happened with the T50.

You pays your money and takes your choice but right now, T50 is a large collection of unknowns and they've a long way to go before they can decide if they're on the right track or need to re-design the wing or intakes because of something they found down the line. Particularly if they've no idea how the production engine performs...

 

[John Fedup]

Defense-aerospace has an article suggesting India is losing enthusiasm for its involvement in the export version of the T-50 but considering their failures in other aircraft procurements I guess this is no surprise.

 

[Feanor]

Meanwhile the new long range missile for the S-400 has struck a target at nearly 400kms out.

«УÑпешно иÑпытана дальнÑÑ Ñ€Ð°ÐºÐµÑ‚Ð° Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¡-400» в блоге «ÐрмРи Флот» - Сделано у наÑ