I think it would be along the lines of 3 possibly 4 x chooks if they go down that road. Personally I would like to see 2 (or 3 he says wishfully) x C17, 4 x A400M, 6 x C27J or C295, 3 x CH47F fitted for AAR, 2nd tranche of 2 x NH90 fitted for AAR and 5 x armoured and fitted for armed A109. After that a second tranche of 2 x A400M plus 2 x AAR kits. The first tranche of NH90s also retrospectively fitted for AAR.
Who's going to pay for that?
And that's the point isn't it. What I would like to see happen and what they are willing to fund are two totally different stories. It's always been the case in NZ over last 40 years of what is need to undertake the taskings govt set and what govt is willing to fund being to different stories.
If you are going down the path of C130J purchasing you definitely buy new not used because we don't want to have to fund replacement aircraft in 10 - 15 years time.
I dont think Peter Greener is a member here yet aware of the differences between OZ and NZ is this area. The point stands with respect to Greeners comment and the emerging whole of force doctrine - like what the ADF found that more of a C-17 type capability was necessary in operational capability in the presenta nd future. That is why their C17 fleet has doubled in size. Greener is wrong that less than 1800-2000 hours per annum (effectively 2 C-17s) will not have plenty of work to do amongst our air mobility spectrum needs.
There is a real push for streamlining within Defence - particularly with avoiding running so many small numbers of platforms in the RNZAF and this is the issue here with the wish list. That is why even a slight variation in platform type such as the AW109 is an issue causing a delay and a rethink about gettingh more airframes, because the Air Transport Review effects everything else including future Rotary and Sealift/Amphibious Support requirements. Especially when Defence is looked at houlistically under the JATF doctrine and the Asian-Pacific littorals where much of our future orientation will be over the next 40 years.
CH-47s deployed off a future RNZN Amphibious Aviation Support Ship would be a positive. They are a very useful tactical purple asset.
Yes indeed, but would that be as a future HMNZS Canterbury replacement (if so we're talking about a post 2025-30 time period then)?
There would be no variation in the AW109 platform type because the variant quoted in the list is the same as the one current in use with the RNZAF. I do see what you mean and they will run into a problem with the Seasprites at a future date if they need to increase the number of naval combat helos for any reason or have to replace any sprites that are lost due to accident etc. A conclusion for your argument then would be forget the C17s and run with a fleet of say 6 or 7 x A400s, 6 chooks and another 2 or 4 NH90s with an AAR capability for the chooks and all NH90s and AAR kits for the A400s. That would definitely reduce the types and variants within each type.
Obviously, but it will not be and is not the only solution. We are of hamstrung by distances, fleet size, tasking tempos, geography, speed and reliability. Yeah there will be times when it may seem overkill but multiple micro fleets are a dramatically far greater headache in the RNZAF context. But maybe you might find that is us colonials again being unspohisticated.
It is not my argument and I am not yet seeking a speculatory pre-conclusion. There is an emerging reluctance within Defence to add further AW109s at this stage especially if the additional examples are civilian versions to supplement training.
In what scenario do you see tanked helos being used?
Well for instance in long range oceanic SAR here where there is a need just as an example. I'm just throwing it into the mix because it does have advantages that may benefit NZDF in the long-term. For example if chooks are bought then they could self deploy to the islands in time if crisis if need be instead of waiting to be ferried by the RNZN or not utilised at all.
Future CY replacement? Absolutely - along with P-3K2/C130 replacement it is or should be the cornerstone of the future purple JATF if it is the right vessel. That major capability needs to be set down soon so our future force structure over the subsequent middle part of the century can be built around it.
To self deploy - Just stuff one in the back of a C17 and go. Then follow up with kit and spanners. Probably faster and easier in a crisis. NH-90 would be easier to have rotary deployed quick smart.
That's if the bean counters stump up with the $ for the C17( i am not overly confident that it will happen)and as far as I am awere the CH47 does not fit into a A400M.