IIRC he didn't get the full compartment brief anyway.
that man is a wasted space, even his own party cringes at his commentary
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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IIRC he didn't get the full compartment brief anyway.
that man is a wasted space, even his own party cringes at his commentary
Actually, the two guys who briefed him did so to quite a high level, to the extent a special clearance was required to be gained before-hand.
One of the ongoing irritations is that pollies don't go through the same process as "salaried staff"
the full on brief involves 3 people from 3 different agencies (in addition to the uniform tasked with the happy job of conducting it), + all the other hoo har that goes into a 4 hr interview
believe me, he didn't get that brief
Joe Black
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Is it me or does the Giraffe AMB radar looks really small on the LHD. Is there a secondary radar on mast #2?
Joe Black
Active Member
Interesting to see if DCNS intends to join in the RAN's Collins class replacement competition with the SMX Ocean.
Some impressive spec, albeit a paper boat only:
DCNS Unveils SMX-Ocean, A New Blue-Water SSK with Expanded Capabilities | Navy & Maritime Security News at DefenceTalk
Some impressive spec, albeit a paper boat only:
DCNS Unveils SMX-Ocean, A New Blue-Water SSK with Expanded Capabilities | Navy & Maritime Security News at DefenceTalk
Interesting that the LHD program has gone approximately to plan (considering the size of the ship and the deal to build her). Certainly will be huge assets to the entire ADF when we get them.
Yes and no. Yes, the oberons were one hell of a sub. But maintaining them was not completely free of problems or expense. The RAN/Cockatoo had to do a lot of development and improvements to maintain and upgrade them. The initial refit took twice as long as planned. But by then end they had a whole system worked out to maintain the things.
http://www.cockatooisland.gov.au/sy...5ed533/files/cmp-cockatooisland-dockyard3.pdf
I like the Japanese subs. But what have the Japanese actually offered us? I have a feeling our politicians may not actually be saying what the Japanese are saying. Saying we might collaborate on subs is very different to we will build your subs, locally, invest and run your local companies, solve all your issues (including workforce, Australianisation/customization of the design), run the maintenance and logistics so you will be 100% happy, and do it all for a rock bottom fixed price, just sign here and write when you want your first delivery in the box and how many you want.
The Germans are actually pretty much offering us that. And they can probably do it too. Heck, they built a submarine in Greece before they cancelled the project after the government owed them half a billion. While the Australian industry and ASC is a bit of a mess, I would like to think its less of a mess than Greece.
knightrider4
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Lots of issues to be worked out for sure. Type 216 on paper does sound impressive, but its relatively easy to offer the world when there is still much design work to do. I wonder in reality how much design work has been completed for the Type 216? The Soryu being in service is somewhat of a known quantity, lots of integration issues to sort, although so would the German offering. Perhaps the 216 being developmental and therefore carrying a fair amount of risk may not be viewed all that favourably although who knows. Will find out soon enough I guess.
Sometimes a fresh design can be less risky and cheaper than adapting from an existing design, "if" the existing design is too far from the requirements. Even if an existing design is close to what is required you can encounter problems if the designer lacks experience in designing for export, let alone for an OS build.
knightrider4
Active Member
Sometimes being the buzzword here. It was deemed sometime ago that a cleansheet design was deemed as way too risky. As GF points out the US will have concerns regarding the combat system and various other bits and peices. HDW maybe a private entity but be rest assured your secrets are no safer with them than any other government entity. I'm sure that HDW would probably be extolling the virtues of the STN Atlas combat system too and asking why the preference for the Raytheon system. There are lots of unkowns I'm sure the appropriate due diligence is being carried out and the most capable submarine chosen. HDW knows how to pull the old heart strings we can build them in Adelaide etc etc, add a bit of public pressure etc etc we can build 12 of them for 20 billion fixed price and fixed schedule. Sure you can. Once that contract is signed its oh well the workforce technical skills arent up to scratch so we had to train x amount of people and then this happened and then its well this is a clean sheet design and in a project of this magnitude you must expect delays etc etc.
I believe that Singapore is ordering the Type 218SG?
I haven't been able to find out much about this project, but I was under the impression that it is to be based on the Type 216.
Submarines: Singapore Orders Super Type 218SG Boats
It actually sounds like it could be a reasonable match for Australia's requirements.
I haven't been able to find out much about this project, but I was under the impression that it is to be based on the Type 216.
Submarines: Singapore Orders Super Type 218SG Boats
It actually sounds like it could be a reasonable match for Australia's requirements.
knightrider4
Active Member
On paper it does sound good. But everything sounds good on paper. Some articles in the press are just surreal, there is no way on Gods green earth that HDW can build 12 boats in Australia for 20 billion fixed price and fixed schedule. Not in Adelaide that is just laughable.
t68
Well-Known Member
Hit em with a fixed contract no more to pay and any extra is worn by them, wonder what they will say then?
We know what they will do and that will be to run away as fast as they can
the horror costs come with integration of the combat suite and sensors - building the boat isn't the major cost killer
This may still be a major issue with the Soryus of course
MB
knightrider4
Active Member
O fcourse it will be just that there quote is much more realistic. Ten for 25 billion as opposed to 12 for 20 billion built in an uncompetitive enviroment.
Trackmaster
Member
The latest "scoop" on ASC and the Adelaide workforce.
New frigates
Funny, it doesn't mention the latest announcements in the last 36 hours from Spain on their frigate developments.
Perhaps a "leak" to someone who can't be bothered doing their own research.
New frigates
Funny, it doesn't mention the latest announcements in the last 36 hours from Spain on their frigate developments.
Perhaps a "leak" to someone who can't be bothered doing their own research.
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knightrider4
Active Member
On economics and submarines | The Strategist
Interesting article debunking some of the garbage coming out of South Australia.
knightrider4
Active Member
The Japanese are well versed in exporting just about everything.
Are you an experienced submarine builder by any chance? Highly familiar with ASC, HDW, Kochums and Kawasaki? I would suggest that there are some very experienced and capable people who would find the suggestion that they could build 12 boats in Adelaide for $20billion laughable, quite offensive.
I have worked for a Japanese company manufacturing in Australia and guess what, they were not perfect and actually had to bring in Germans to fix a lot of their issues.
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