Russian Air Force News & Discussion

[Klaus]

Piotr Butowski has written two articles for KEY Publishing, which are included in the July issue of Air International magazine.

The first one sums up the latest news concerning UAVs. Sukhoi's planned Okhotnik UCAV won't fly for some time to come. The aircraft's design will be completed in 2015, after that a prototype will be built.
Meanwhile MiG is developing a lighter UCAV, which is called Gonshchik. It will weigh about 5 tons and be able to carry 1 ton of ordnance. It is destined to carry out recon missions, mainly for ballistic missile units. The UCAV will have a max speed of 800-1000 km/h.

The second article describes the state of the Yak-130 programme. 89 have been ordered by the MoD so far (67 for training units of the VVS, 12 for a new aerobatics team, 10 for the VMF). In total, Russia's armed forces will receive more than 230 aircraft of the type, according to Sergey Shoigu. In the near future the Yak-130 will be upgraded with a laser rangefinder and an IR sight.
Yakovlev still hopes to sell a dedicated combat version to the MoD.

The Mod is preparing a second order for the Su-35. Between 48 and 64 aircraft will be acquired after the current contract expires in 2015.

Up to 64 Su-35 fighters may be delivered to the Russian Ministry of Defense under a new contract with UAC - News - Russian Aviation - RUAVIATION.COM

 

[ramybox]

Almaz-Antey is building three new factories to meet the S-400 contracts from the MoD. When China tried placing a request for those systems they were told the soonest they would see any was 2017. So I'm guessing we will see large-scale mass production in the 2012-2015 timeframe. Until then 1-2 units annually will be the limit.

the china want to buy s-400 , but also the saudia arabia want to deal it .
i think that saudi arabia will be the first country which will buy that defence system

 

[alexkvaskov]

VVS chief Bondarev claims a Foxhound replacement program will start in 2017 with the production aircraft due for 2025.

Russia to Start Developing Replacement for MiG-31 in 2017 | Military & Intelligence | RIA Novosti

It's interesting that they see a need for such a platform. Thoughts?

 

[Bonza]

I think it's really strange they're not just pouring more money into the PAK-FA, really. It's a supercruising fighter with plenty of space for BVR munitions, how can it not function as a MiG-31 replacement? Or is this simply a case of ensuring MiG still exist as a business entity by throwing them contracts?

It seems most logical (to me at least) that they would focus on developing the PAK-FA and PAK-DA, dumping platforms like the MiG-31 and MiG-29, and upgrading all the Flanker variants in service to a relatively common standard...

 

[Feanor]

I think it's really strange they're not just pouring more money into the PAK-FA, really. It's a supercruising fighter with plenty of space for BVR munitions, how can it not function as a MiG-31 replacement? Or is this simply a case of ensuring MiG still exist as a business entity by throwing them contracts?

It seems most logical (to me at least) that they would focus on developing the PAK-FA and PAK-DA, dumping platforms like the MiG-31 and MiG-29, and upgrading all the Flanker variants in service to a relatively common standard...

They want a "hypersonic" interceptor to deal with future hypersonic enemy assets. Unfortunately they don't have the tech to do it, so they're producing a compromise design that is supposed to be Mach 4.5. Politics is certainly a big part of it. Inertia is another. A different threat perception is a third.

I honestly think they should dump the Flanker and Fulcrum procurement programs, in favor of more and more PAK-FA. But I don't think the PAK-FA is ready for production now, and I don't think it will be quite on time. And they want something they can use now. They also want to support domestic defense industry.

 

[alexkvaskov]

I honestly think they should dump the Flanker and Fulcrum procurement programs, in favor of more and more PAK-FA. But I don't think the PAK-FA is ready for production now, and I don't think it will be quite on time. And they want something they can use now. They also want to support domestic defense industry.

I was wondering about that, but wouldn't a PAK-FA be too expensive and over the top for some of their missions? To replace the Flankers and Fulcrums without reducing their fleet too much, wouldn't they need 400+ PAK-FAs? Can they even produce/procure/maintain that many?

 

[Feanor]

I was wondering about that, but wouldn't a PAK-FA be too expensive and over the top for some of their missions? To replace the Flankers and Fulcrums without reducing their fleet too much, wouldn't they need 400+ PAK-FAs? Can they even produce/procure/maintain that many?

Well they've currently bought or will buy ~130 Su-34, 48 Su-35S (with another 48 in the works), 16 Su-30M2, 12 Su-27SM3, 16 MiG-29SMT, 12 Su-25UBM, and 60 Su-30SM. This is before they even get to the PAK-FA. I think that if this was replaced with half that number in PAK-FA it would be more worth it in the long run. And keep in mind that while producing that many PAK-FA may be problematic, maintaining that many PAK-FA is probably easier then this diverse fleet.

A few problems do exist. The VVS doesn't have experience using truly multi-role fighters. They've basically never used multi-role squadrons. So their SMTs and SMs have never been used for interdiction or CAS. PGMs are very rare. Instead they keep using Su-24s and 34s for interdiction, and Su-25s for CAS. It's hard to go from that straight to a single-platform 5th gen multi-role structure. And the experience of using fighters for CAS and strike missions being absent, makes then unsure of putting all their eggs in that basket.

 

[StobieWan]

They want a "hypersonic" interceptor to deal with future hypersonic enemy assets. Unfortunately they don't have the tech to do it, so they're producing a compromise design that is supposed to be Mach 4.5. Politics is certainly a big part of it. Inertia is another. A different threat perception is a third.

I honestly think they should dump the Flanker and Fulcrum procurement programs, in favor of more and more PAK-FA. But I don't think the PAK-FA is ready for production now, and I don't think it will be quite on time. And they want something they can use now. They also want to support domestic defense industry.

Well, if PAK/FA isn't ready now (and that certainly would logically be the case) then designing, building and fielding a hypersonic interceptor earlier seems a tall order. I'm not getting it unless there's a political need to award an order for some purpose?

What's the threat they're countering (SR72?)

 

[Feanor]

Well, if PAK/FA isn't ready now (and that certainly would logically be the case) then designing, building and fielding a hypersonic interceptor earlier seems a tall order. I'm not getting it unless there's a political need to award an order for some purpose?

There is a political need. And the military wants to maintain the high-speed interceptor capability. There has been some concern over improvements to Chinese bombers, and some discussion over the use of MiG-31s as regular BVR fighters (i.e. simply as a fast and simple way to deliver long-range missiles to the battlefield). I mean, let's say that instead of building a 5th-gen MiG-31 equivalent, all they do is rework the MiG-31, put in new engines, and through improvements in technology simply get it up to the required Mach-4.5 speed, it wouldn't be nearly as difficult. I wonder if it will even carry AESA.

Also remember the MiG-41 project (as it's been referred to) is meant to be ready by 2025. Where as the PAK-FA is meant for serial production in 2016. If we allow for some slippage, it might take until 2018, and the MiG-41 might not be around until the 2030 timeframe.

What's the threat they're countering (SR72?)

Hypothetically? Yes. Actually?

 

[Haavarla]

Some unconfirmed reports, the T-50-04 will fly within the next two weeks. They repaired it and did some modification as well. Stay tuned.

 

[alexkvaskov]

The MoD has signed a deal with Irkut for another seven Su-30SM for the naval aviation at the Gidroaviasalon expo in Gelendzhik. Sources claim there is an option for another 10 jets.

bmpd -

This is on top of the contract for 5 Su-30SM for the naval aviation late last year. To sum up, so far some 72 Su-30SM have been ordered, 60 of that number for the VVS. And of course, persistent rumours that another 30 will be procured.

Must say I'm excited to see these Flankers replacing the naval aviation's Fencers. This is the kind of procurement the VVS needs as opposed to next generation interceptors.

 

[Feanor]

The MoD has signed a deal with Irkut for another seven Su-30SM for the naval aviation at the Gidroaviasalon expo in Gelendzhik. Sources claim there is an option for another 10 jets.

bmpd -

This is on top of the contract for 5 Su-30SM for the naval aviation late last year. To sum up, so far some 72 Su-30SM have been ordered, 60 of that number for the VVS. And of course, persistent rumours that another 30 will be procured.

Must say I'm excited to see these Flankers replacing the naval aviation's Fencers. This is the kind of procurement the VVS needs as opposed to next generation interceptors.

It's the AVMF. And yes, the Su-30SM is the perfect bird for them. Especially if Russia finally buys the BrahMos for themselves. Although it would have been nice if, instead of messing around with the MiG-29K, they went for an Su-30SM type upgrade for the Su-33, and gave the AVMF a unified platform for carrier and land-based operation.

 

[alexkvaskov]

It's interesting how so many Russian military exercises are focused on repelling air strikes, such as the ongoing Vostok-2014 war games. Seems like it's a high priority concern for them.

 

[Feanor]

It's interesting how so many Russian military exercises are focused on repelling air strikes, such as the ongoing Vostok-2014 war games. Seems like it's a high priority concern for them.

The West has used airstrikes against countries as a way to achieve their goals, quite a lot in the last 25 years. From the air war in GW 1, to bombings of Yugoslavia, to the air campaign against Saddam's Iraq, to GW 2, to the campaign against Libya, to the current strikes against ISIS. It's hardly surprising that Russia is working hard on developing a system-wide means of dealing with that type of attack. Little pieces like anti-cruise missile training by Pantsyr crews on unprepared positions, or intercepting cruise missiles using the MiG-31s, to bigger stuff like solidifying and hardening the C4I capability cluster, to prevent it from being torn up like it has been by US air campaigns against lesser adversaries. It's quite logical, if a bit predictable.

 

[alexkvaskov]

...to bigger stuff like solidifying and hardening the C4I capability cluster...

Can you name specific steps they have carried out?

 

[Feanor]

Can you name specific steps they have carried out?

New comm gear at every level, especially those new automated command and control posts, like the stuff that air defense brigades are getting. Even the Barnaul-T (iirc that's the name) the new C2 system for brigade level PVO-SV, is designed to be able to communicate and work together with the VVS and PVO system. New Military District level command facilities that allow them to concentrate decision making in one place, and put all the disparate info together into one solid real-time picture.

 

[alexkvaskov]

There's been a major flurry of VVS activity in connection with the Vostok-2014 drills. Thought I'd write a post summarizing this activity. Prior to the Vostok war games, there was a week long snap readiness drill, followed immediately by the full blown maneuvers.

Some details:

Foxhounds are flying over the Pacific, providing air defence for naval ships. Aided with an A-50 AEW&C, they struck "floating" targets. If true, this means the Foxhounds are acquiring the long rumored strike, A2S capability. I recall talk of SEAD/DEAD roles for the Foxhounds in the Russian blogosphere over the past few years.
«

More Foxhounds escorting Bears on long range CAP missions over the Arctic with the Bears launching cruise missiles. Arial refueling was also performed.
«

There were also DACT exercises conducted with Su-24/7 crews flying strike packages against Su-30, Su-35 and Mig-31 pilots.

As Feanor mentioned earlier, Foxhounds are also intercepting ALCMs. Finally, strike packages comprised of Foxhounds, bombers and tankers have ventured towards Alaska.
Russian fighters intercepted by US near Alaska
BBC News - Six Russian fighter jets intercepted off Alaska

And this is just the fast jet activity.. There are also dozens of choppers and freighters of all shapes and sizes whizzing around.

 

[alexkvaskov]

Central Uglovaya AB has received a pair of Su-30M2s.

bmpd -

The Eastern MD is getting by far the largest share of modern flankers, with Domna in particular receiving many Su-30SMs and Su-35s throughout this year. I'm curious to see whether the East or West MD will be the first to host the PAK-FA.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Central Uglovaya AB has received a pair of Su-30M2s.

bmpd -

The Eastern MD is getting by far the largest share of modern flankers, with Domna in particular receiving many Su-30SMs and Su-35s throughout this year. I'm curious to see whether the East or West MD will be the first to host the PAK-FA.

as am I, I will note that I recently ordered a 1/100 th scale model of the J-20 and PAK-FA,,,,,, I am happy to report the PAK-FA will turn well inside the J-20, although as you might have guessed the J-20 is stealthier and may carry more internal weapons? LOL, I do like observing the differences in the two models, the PAK-FA still remaining true to the Flanker traditions, and the J-20 with its distant coupled canard attempting to achieve the rapid pitch transitions necessary to "play games" with the big boys. I would say the PAK FA is still 3-5 years away from IOC.

 

[bdique]

I can't quite put my finger on it, but I get the feeling that the PAK-FA (and the same goes for the Chinese stealth jets) will not be all-aspect stealth fighters, but simply have a reduced frontal RCS. That's not enough in the modern battlefield.

Maybe it's got something to do with the engine exhausts? Can't quite pin my finger on it.