Really? Come on. That's just nonsense.
A change of government in Ukraine means relatively little for Russia. Russia has already caused more damage to its international standing, economy, and relations with Europe, by it's current actions. The Russian government had a plethora of options which did not include dying...
crest already voiced some of the things I wanted to say
But lets go by the options you provided.
1. Leave them alone\ 2.Take a tough economic stance against Ukraine - Well crest answered that, and please remember the unbelievable Russophobic subtext of the Maidan, should I post some of nazi style videos from Maidan ? How people where beaten up for wearing the georgian stripe in Kiev (before the war in donbass) ? For example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eB-Z-0mxmg this one (as I understand it you know russian language at least on some level) ? I can post many more videos of this, including the ones from Odessa May 2nd. The ethnically Russian people were in a very real danger and if Russia did nothing, in the end Putin would have seen a maidan in red square, because as the saying goes "Russians don't abandon their own people" (Yes it is not always true, but there is a fact of Russian spirit in people, take me for example I should not have cared because I was born in Latvia and now live in Netherlands, but I do care about the situation and I don`t know why, I just do).
3. Buy out the Ukrainian elites. - It is not that easy and with SBU working in the best traditions of NKVD of 1937 (taking people at night without any kind of legal reasons), those who would have sold them selves to the RF would have found them selves probably kidnapped\killed and without their business for sure. You probably don`t believe that such a thing would happen ? Well here is a small example
Ð§ÐµÑ€Ð½Ð°Ñ ÐœÐ¾Ð»Ð½Ð¸Ñ - ОдеÑÑитка Инга Ðвдеева and here is another one
Ðовые руны - Порошенко, пидараÑ, прекрати бомбить ДонбаÑÑ!. Oh and please remind me what happened with Ukrainian communist party ? Oh right, that`s what
Êîììóíèñòè÷åñêàÿ ïàðòèÿ Óêðàèíû - ÊÏÓ è åùå øåñòü ïàðòèé, êîòîðûå îòæèëè ñâîå - Ãîñóäàðñòâî - Forbes Óêðàèíà. VERY democratic. Oh and the plain fact of maidan itself, that is unconstitutional what happened there and if something like that happened in US or ANY EU country the National guard forces would suppress such event with as much brutality as needed, or am I wrong ?
4. Buy out some EU governments - Um, what ? I don`t think that buying out people or governments is as easy as going into supermarket and buying a pack of gum, I would guess that EU and US would be VERY against such a things and will go any length to stop such thing from happening, and in any case, how can one country bid against EU and US together ? And just giving money is never enough, you have to have a point of pressure on said country as well, otherwise they will just take your money and give nothing in return. Basically there is a lot of other things that makes this option about as far from reality as anything can be.
5. Invade and annex Eastern Ukraine - Yes that would be a lot easier, but the world does not work like that and I think you know it. As crest said that would be playing "all in", the west would have no other choice but to react, even taking Crimea the way it is played out was very risky and made possible because it had nothing to do with Ukraine in the first place, it is a Russian land and pretty much every body knows it, the Ukrainian never liked it any way and neglected the region as much as was possible. Back to the invade and annex Eastern Ukraine, who would want another great war ? Even if you take all of EU\US\NATO\ANZAC and whatever other allies western block have, the Russian and their allies may not be as strong military (I have no idea about the real capabilities of the sides, and I would guess that no one can actually with 100% surety say who can do what if sides go all in), but I believe there is still a strong enough force to make both sides bleed badly, it is like two fighters with about the same skill boxing, one may be stronger but in the end win or not, both is beaten to sh*t and nobody wants that, not west and not east, may be only Asians
Not back to the idea of why not just let it go, there is a very good theory, I believe it.
First a couple of facts, when USSR stopped to exist the RF was VERY weak (and it took all the debt of USSR btw, the money was used everywhere, in Ukraine was built a huge military production complex, everywhere was built schools, factories, housing for people. Did baltic states that are so Russophobic payed any of that debt ? No they didn`t, no one did except RF.), with the coming of Putin the country got strong again (Some oligarchs was against it, for example the very famous Hodarkovsky, because the country started to use it`s resources to build something, to rebuild the army that was almost destroyed in the previous years, instead of just being used as a way to get rich fast for some people). Please not I don`t say anything about Putin being a good or bad guy, I just say that it is a fact that RF got from the knees and became a strong military and political power again, just look at the progress of the army.
Now to the theory.
If the western script with maidan played out like the people expected it to be (RF just standing silently and doing nothing), you get a highly Russophobic state on the border with RF.
Step 1 (that one was done btw, but the result was not exactly what expected, they got real war for that step) - Ethnically Russian people should be mistreated as much as possible, some brutality is preferable (hello Odessa May 2nd).
Step 2 (by the plan the Russia is doing nothing to protect Russians on Ukraine territory. Some Russians left to RF from Ukraine, some are angry at RF for doing nothing so they became "Ukrainians") start the talks from inside Russia that Putin is enemy of Russian people because he abandoned the people in Ukraine (that is why the brutality against Russians was required, to show it to the people in RF, that is why all the brutal things made in Ukraine against Russians was so nicely documented, it was required to stir up the people in RF, and it worked).
Step 3 Maidan in Red Square, the citizens of RF them selves remove Putin, and that is what west wants.
The west did not create maidan, it happened on its own accord as most such things do.
Read more:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/geo-strategic-issues/ukranian-crisis-12973-98/#ixzz3BiUSZfgV
Such things almost never created by themselves, at least not on such scale, there is always external power who gives the idea and the resources, the how long Maidan was active, a month ? 2 months ? Do you realize how much money it costed ? You have to feed the people or do you really believe that such a huge crowd was fed by nice old ladies ? There was a portable toilets all over Maidan, those were put there by the companies not because they are so nice, but because they just were paid to do their job. The people were brought to Kiev in big groups by buses in organized matter, do you really believe that random people is so organized ? And they paid their own money for the transfer ? Yeah right. Oh the militia on Maidan was paid not a bad money by UA standards, many went there to earn some easy money, who was so generous I wonder ? And actually US never even hided the fact they supported Maidan, and those 5 million they invested in "Supporting the democracy" is was officially known to every one, how much was invested covertly ? We will never know, but I believe at least the same amount of money, probably more.
By the way I actually like Russia (i.e wolfhound nick name) but am pissed at what appears to be one mans ego dragging the whole country backwards just as it was really starting to shine on the global stage.
Read more:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/geo-strategic-issues/ukranian-crisis-12973-98/#ixzz3BiWhsbZd
Russian people mostly support the effort of Putin in Ukraine, so how is it a one mans ego ? He is not the all powerful, is there is no support then there is no action.
Russia may "win" eastern Ukraine in the short term but will suffer damage to its economy and reputation that will last for decades. Who in their right mind would trust or rely on Russia after this?
Read more:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/geo-strategic-issues/ukranian-crisis-12973-98/#ixzz3BiX7jmQD
I like how a lot of people on this forum thinks that western block in the whole world
nfloorl: Yes it is a considerable part of the world, but no where near being all of the world. There is a south american countries that is gaining power and a lot of them really don`t like US (for a good reasons btw, the amount of blood spilled there because of US is huge), there is Asia that is VERY strong now and also not all of that region is with western block (India is very sympathetic of RF ), there is Africa that has it`s own problems so it does not care much about what Russia or any one else does. So when you say something like
The thing that gets me is since Sept 11 2001 Russia has been one of the good guys, a responsible friendly nation willing to work with the rest of the world, a good global citizen.
Read more:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/geo-strategic-issues/ukranian-crisis-12973-97/#ixzz3BibQDt9y
what you actually mean is only the western block and it`s allies, please remember the difference.
Well this was a very long write up, but I do hope that this will help you to understand the "other side" POV, the question is "Are you interested in it ? Or you just want to keep blaming RD for every single problem in the world.". If you are interested I can spend my time by finding and posting videos here, information and point of view mine and people that I read, and debate something, if not then just say so and I will stop posting here and will just read. This is my best attempt at not "obnoxious and rude" posting style, if this is not good enough then I give up.
