Ukranian Crisis

[Feanor]

Also today, correspondents from both the Telegraph and the Guardian watched a RF column of 23 vehicles cross the border. They said the column consisted of a mix of APCs, fuel and cargo trucks.

From your article.

Igor "The Shooter" Girkin, the rebels' military commander, resigned from his post on Thursday. He will be replaced by a senior militiaman known only as "The Tsar".

Ah journalists. Why would you do real research? A 10 second google search turns up the name of Vladimir Kononov as the new MinDef for the DNR, currently acting, pending approval.

Hell even NTV reported on it...

Anyways, as far as cross border traffic, much more serious then journalists, the OSCE observers saw it. So... yeah...

 

[Twain]

The marynivka checkpoint is back in separatist hands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8BhPloUqvI

https://twitter.com/MiddleEast_BRK/status/499937494600011776

There were reports early in the day that more troops had crossed the border from Russia near here, apparently this was their destination.

 

[Feanor]

The marynivka checkpoint is back in separatist hands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8BhPloUqvI

https://twitter.com/MiddleEast_BRK/status/499937494600011776

There were reports early in the day that more troops had crossed the border from Russia near here, apparently this was their destination.

If this is true, a large chunk of the 24th Mech Bde is now surrounded. South Cauldron part 2...

 

[Twain]

If this is true, a large chunk of the 24th Mech Bde is now surrounded. South Cauldron part 2...

The reports are very fragmentary, I believe the UA still holds Stepanivka and at least some of the surrounding area.

Luhansk may be completely cut off now too. UA attacked Novosvitlivka, They didn't take the town but they did move forward far enough to cut the M04 highway.

What I am curious about is how badly strelkov is wounded. Separatist sources reported his being severly wouned, then a couple hours later retracted it.

There are also reports of separatists surrendering in and around horlivka. Supposedly 46 chechens surrended yesterday.

Yenakijeve is under attack too, that would cut the last road link to horlivka.

Speaking of Horlivka, where is Bezler?

 

[Feanor]

The reports are very fragmentary, I believe the UA still holds Stepanivka and at least some of the surrounding area.

Do they hold it, as in they can safely run supply convoys, and pull troops out through there? Or do they hold it, as in they have some infantry in the town, in direct contact with rebels, and no way to really go anywhere?

Luhansk may be completely cut off now too. UA attacked Novosvitlivka, They didn't take the town but they did move forward far enough to cut the M04 highway.

I'm not so sure. It may be that a large Ukrainian force broke through but is not surrounded. They can still move around, take small towns, and put up quite a fight, but they're not connected to their main forces north of Lugansk. There also appears to be a distinct corridor east of Lugansk.

There are also reports of separatists surrendering in and around horlivka. Supposedly 46 chechens surrended yesterday.

Yenakijeve is under attack too, that would cut the last road link to horlivka.

Speaking of Horlivka, where is Bezler?

I don't know what the situation there is, I haven't seen any reports lately. It hasn't fallen, and Kiev hasn't announced that they've surrounded it, so I'd assume that rebels still hold it, and still have some access points in and out.

 

[Twain]

Do they hold it, as in they can safely run supply convoys, and pull troops out through there? Or do they hold it, as in they have some infantry in the town, in direct contact with rebels, and no way to really go anywhere?

It looks like Stepanivka is under attack now.

I'm not so sure. It may be that a large Ukrainian force broke through but is not surrounded. They can still move around, take small towns, and put up quite a fight, but they're not connected to their main forces north of Lugansk. There also appears to be a distinct corridor east of Lugansk.

That corridor is only 6-7 km wide and has no good roads and a small river dividing it. While they might get some supplies through, it won't be easy, some of the roads appear to be just field roads.


With the fighting at Stepanivka and apparently another group of troops crossing the border near Uspenka it doesn't look good for the UA. In the past Russia had primarily sent in new troops across borders where they controlled both sides. If they continue to send in new mercenaries behind the UA, it's either going to stretch the UA forces thin trying to control a much larger stretch of the border or get them surrounded as they are attempting at Stepanivka.

Apparently there are a considerable number of troops crossing the border in the Luhansk region also. The UA will probably be in trouble soon if this continues. They just conscripted a bunch of new recruits but they won't be ready for a while and they have to be having trouble with replacements by now as their infantry has been taking a beating. The UA is still rooting out spies in their midst and several infantry groups have been ambushed due to leaked info.


In regards to the 80 T-72's from Hungary, I also saw that they may be getting 24? Mig 29's. Does anyone know if they even have trained pilots for these?

The humanitarion convoy: many of the trucks are at best half full. Looks like a distraction/ PR stunt to me. The downside for Putin, it drew a bunch of reporters to the border where they are busy taking pictures of all the troops crossing the border into Ukraine.

 

[Relboon]

Twain you still say random things, at least give SOME source, and you keep writing in the style that suggest that you know the last truth.:nutkick

 

[BlueRose]

Rather confusing and conflicting reports that Ukraine partially destroyed a Russian Armored Column. Fogh Rasmussen also stated that this occurred, this is a confusing statement to make.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/16/world/europe/ukraine-russia.html

 

[Relboon]

Rather confusing and conflicting reports that Ukraine partially destroyed a Russian Armored Column. Fogh Rasmussen also stated that this occurred, this is a confusing statement to make.

So far only Poroshenko said (and UA can not be trusted with any information they give, they lie constantly and without even trying to properly cover their lies up, they just lie as much as they can) about the destruction of said column.

 

[Feanor]

Rather confusing and conflicting reports that Ukraine partially destroyed a Russian Armored Column. Fogh Rasmussen also stated that this occurred, this is a confusing statement to make.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/16/world/europe/ukraine-russia.html

It's probably the same column the OSCE observers, and the British journalists were talking about.

In regards to the 80 T-72's from Hungary, I also saw that they may be getting 24? Mig 29's. Does anyone know if they even have trained pilots for these?

They have pilots for MiG-29s. "Trained" is, I guess, a subjective standard...

The humanitarion convoy: many of the trucks are at best half full. Looks like a distraction/ PR stunt to me. The downside for Putin, it drew a bunch of reporters to the border where they are busy taking pictures of all the troops crossing the border into Ukraine.

What makes you say the trucks are half full? Ukrainian sources ran stories, saying the humanitarian aid has been stolen, and that much of it is missing, but no reliable source has stated anything of the sort, including the usual Russian opposition sources. It came across looking like another typical smear, the kind that's all too common in Ukrainian press these days. Do you have a source for this?

 

[Twain]

Twain you still say random things, at least give SOME source, and you keep writing in the style that suggest that you know the last truth.:nutkick

You know since you have shown up around here your posts consist of two things, complaints and "ukranians lie". I'm surprised you are still here. If you are that unhappy with my posting style feel free to ignore them, no one is forcing you to read them.

 

[GermanHerman]

What makes you say the trucks are half full? Ukrainian sources ran stories, saying the humanitarian aid has been stolen, and that much of it is missing, but no reliable source has stated anything of the sort, including the usual Russian opposition sources. It came across looking like another typical smear, the kind that's all too common in Ukrainian press these days. Do you have a source for this?

A lot of german mainstream online news portals did report on this aspect at least briefly too.

This article states that Russia explained the Trucks were left with some extra space for the case that one or more vehicles would break down on the way. Text in German but there are a few pictures:

Ukraine-Krise: Ukrainer kontrollieren russischen Konvoi | ZEIT ONLINE


Besides this, pleas keep this thread free of personal agendas @Relboon and Twain. Even though I can't contribute a lot to this thread I do follow it with great interest and enjoy the constant updates granted by feanor and others, it would be a shame if this would get out of hand.

 

[Capt. Ironpants]

A lot of german mainstream online news portals did report on this aspect at least briefly too.

This article states that Russia explained the Trucks were left with some extra space for the case that one or more vehicles would break down on the way. Text in German but there are a few pictures:

Besides this, pleas keep this thread free of personal agendas @Relboon and Twain. Even though I can't contribute a lot to this thread I do follow it with great interest and enjoy the constant updates granted by feanor and others, it would be a shame if this would get out of hand.

There's also this from the BBC: (oops! can't post the url!) BBC News - Ukraine crisis: BBC finds Russian aid trucks 'almost empty'

My thoughts while looking at the video -- he shows a truck half-filled with what appears to be drinking water -- was that sometimes when refueling at the the destination might be impossible or dicey and/or the convoy might be held up for some time or have to creep slowly, trucks are not filled up all the way to save fuel. I've seen it done before (UNHCR water trucks in war zones). I'm not saying that's the reason, just offering an observation.

Again, my apologies for my goofy screen name. I never thought I'd actually post here.

 

[Twain]

What makes you say the trucks are half full? Ukrainian sources ran stories, saying the humanitarian aid has been stolen, and that much of it is missing, but no reliable source has stated anything of the sort, including the usual Russian opposition sources. It came across looking like another typical smear, the kind that's all too common in Ukrainian press these days. Do you have a source for this?

https://twitter.com/TomBartonJourno/status/500206510551871488/photo/1

https://twitter.com/courtneymoscow/status/500199224349560832/photo/1

https://twitter.com/RoslyakovAP/status/500192222080663552/photo/1

https://twitter.com/ARothNYT/status/499893843501006848/photo/1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcWzAfgMPBM&list=UU16niRr50-MSBwiO3YDb3RA

https://twitter.com/v_solohub/status/500235098189725696/photo/1

 

[Feanor]

https://twitter.com/TomBartonJourno/status/500206510551871488/photo/1

https://twitter.com/courtneymoscow/status/500199224349560832/photo/1

https://twitter.com/RoslyakovAP/status/500192222080663552/photo/1

https://twitter.com/ARothNYT/status/499893843501006848/photo/1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcWzAfgMPBM&list=UU16niRr50-MSBwiO3YDb3RA

https://twitter.com/v_solohub/status/500235098189725696/photo/1

Interesting material, thanks. There's far too little in many of those trucks for the excuse that they left extra space, in case they needed to replace a truck, to be believable. I'm not sure what to think of this.

There's also this from the BBC: (oops! can't post the url!) BBC News - Ukraine crisis: BBC finds Russian aid trucks 'almost empty'

My thoughts while looking at the video -- he shows a truck half-filled with what appears to be drinking water -- was that sometimes when refueling at the the destination might be impossible or dicey and/or the convoy might be held up for some time or have to creep slowly, trucks are not filled up all the way to save fuel. I've seen it done before (UNHCR water trucks in war zones). I'm not saying that's the reason, just offering an observation.

Again, my apologies for my goofy screen name. I never thought I'd actually post here.

Interesting. Can you click on Twain's links, and tell me if that looks like this is the case here? I don't know much about this, but those trucks look really empty.

 

[Feanor]

Twain and Relboon, please keep the personal comments to a minimum. If you need to talk this out, do it in pm's. If you think another member's posts are objectionable, feel free to submit a report to the mod team. Relboon I understand the desire to ask for sources, but you need to find a polite way of doing so.

 

[Capt. Ironpants]

Interesting material, thanks. There's far too little in many of those trucks for the excuse that they left extra space, in case they needed to replace a truck, to be believable. I'm not sure what to think of this.



Interesting. Can you click on Twain's links, and tell me if that looks like this is the case here? I don't know much about this, but those trucks look really empty.

Yikes! They sure do! I only saw one, about half-loaded with bags of grain, where that might be the case. The rest have a laughably small amount in them. What's up with that? Were they deliberately sent with practically nothing in them or was the relief aid looted away before before, during or after loading? And then inviting all the journos to inspect any trucks of their choosing... very odd. Then again, wars are strange.

Edited to add: I got to thinking. These trucks didn't set off from a war zone or area where the roads are clogged with refugees, so it would have been a simple matter to add fuel tankers to the convoy, if they were worried about fuel. That wasn't the case in the situations I saw where trucks had to be loaded light to save fuel -- fuel tankers couldn't get through, and the humanitarian relief had been pre-positioned inside the conflict zone. So my little hypothesis doesn't wash, anyway, even if the trucks had been at least half full.

 

[Moobert]

Every news website over last 24hr carries a profile picture of a separatist armored vehicle in Donetsk. Its on the BBC now under "Ukraine 'hits Russia armoured column' amid aid impasse". Can anyone help identify it? Looks like an upgunned BMP2?

 

[Twain]

Fighting in Stepanivka today.

Олена БілозерÑька: Знаю, Ñк треба! - Ще трохи картинок з апокаліпÑиÑу. Зруйнована школа у Степанівці, що під Савур-могилою

 

[gf0012-aust]

I

What makes you say the trucks are half full? Ukrainian sources ran stories, saying the humanitarian aid has been stolen, and that much of it is missing, but no reliable source has stated anything of the sort, including the usual Russian opposition sources. It came across looking like another typical smear, the kind that's all too common in Ukrainian press these days. Do you have a source for this?

we've seen footage of trucks that are not only half full, but almost empty

I'm not sure how they could have their contents stolen as they were under military escort all the way