Ukranian Crisis

[2007yellow430]

Remember that you are talking about people who report on military matters but can't tell the difference between a HMMWV, Striker, Bradley, and Abrams. Sometimes I wonder if they can count to 6 with their shoes on.

That's a good one. I think they probably could get to six, but eleven could be a stretch. On another note, I've not seen any mention in the US press about the Jews leaving. Over the years I've represented several media type businesses, and in the past there was a separation between editorial and publishing. That separation has been eroded over the years and I think this is the result.

Art

 

[PhysicsMan]

It was very widely reported that the whole referendum was a big joke. Here's one snippet.

"Many of the voters were not on the outdated registration lists but were allowed to vote after showing identification documents.
There also seemed to be no system in place to prevent one person from voting at multiple polling stations.
A CNN crew saw several people vote twice at one polling station, where the ballot boxes were decorated with new Donetsk independence flags.

There was also a report of video showing three men arrested near Slovyansk with boxes of "yes" ballots in their car."


A quick google search will give you a lot more reports very similar to that one.



Crimean Tatars, mainly women and children, are fleeing the region to seek refuge in Western Ukraine or Turkey, although most trains and airplanes are fully booked. They fear retaliation for being pro-Ukrainian -


again google it, there is more out there, this is just one example.
UNPO: Crimean Tatars Call On International Community To Support Their Right To Self-Determination




I do agree that EU or Nato membership is a long way off, no doubt about that. Ukraine would have to institute numerous reforms before they would ever be considered for membership in either.

What I disagree about is that Ukraine would be better off long term in the Customs Union rather than the EU. One of the biggest things that Ukranians are upset about is corruption. It's rampant in the government and not just the previous administration, it goes back years. IMO joining the customs union would just institutionalize the corruption and eventually make Ukraine nothing more than a client state of Russia. Sure they would get a short term fix from the money Putin is willing to throw at them, but it is just that, a very short term fix.

The polish economy is the model they ought to be following. Since 1990 they have increased their GDP from USD $64.5 Billion to $489 billion, almost an 8 fold increase. Compare that to the russian model over the same time period, USD $516 billion to $2,014 billion, not quite a 4 fold increase. If you use constant dollars, it's much less.

How little you understand the nature of corruption in those countries... And that is a good thing. You grew up in a healthy society (in this respect) and think just like the western propaganda on the Ukraine subject wants you to think.
I should tell you that it's likely unimaginable to you how much corruption has permeated those societies (Russia and Ukraine). Almost all of human relations requiring some sort of exchange of anything of value, be it monetary, business or labor, or exertion of any effort for someone else are done through a combination of personal favoritism and payoffs. If anything, it's even worse in Ukraine.
IMO, what western societies don't understand is that this situation is not the result of bad governments, but such governments are the result of this cultural peculiarity. And no amount of association with EU or any other "holy" alliance will change that. Any such change must come from within the society. And it can't be just "done". It's a slow evolution that the society has to go through, enabled most of all by high living standards in a developed economy. It's not an invention of my fantasy, if one pays attention to history it would be obvious.
And the question of how to get Ukrainian economy to that level is very much unclear. What is clear is that whatever they decide, strategically they have no option but to have the best relationship with Russia possible. Otherwise their economy stands no chance - they're just not competitive with the western markets, they need the Russian market. And of course there are cultural ties, making them essential the same peoples in most respects but that's besides the point.

 

[Feanor]

would love to see more sitrep on the ground-truth of the ambush of ukraine rightsector soliders, the one in which estimated 100 ukraine rightsector soldiers get killed and the kiev goverment said they deserted instead of admitting they are casualties. Feanor do you have more information on this rumor ?

It's an internet rumor, best as I can tell. No real information has emerged. So far the nastiest ambush left 8 dead, 6 wounded, on the government side.

How little you understand the nature of corruption in those countries... And that is a good thing. You grew up in a healthy society (in this respect) and think just like the western propaganda on the Ukraine subject wants you to think.
I should tell you that it's likely unimaginable to you how much corruption has permeated those societies (Russia and Ukraine). Almost all of human relations requiring some sort of exchange of anything of value, be it monetary, business or labor, or exertion of any effort for someone else are done through a combination of personal favoritism and payoffs. If anything, it's even worse in Ukraine.
IMO, what western societies don't understand is that this situation is not the result of bad governments, but such governments are the result of this cultural peculiarity. And no amount of association with EU or any other "holy" alliance will change that. Any such change must come from within the society. And it can't be just "done". It's a slow evolution that the society has to go through, enabled most of all by high living standards in a developed economy. It's not an invention of my fantasy, if one pays attention to history it would be obvious.
And the question of how to get Ukrainian economy to that level is very much unclear. What is clear is that whatever they decide, strategically they have no option but to have the best relationship with Russia possible. Otherwise their economy stands no chance - they're just not competitive with the western markets, they need the Russian market. And of course there are cultural ties, making them essential the same peoples in most respects but that's besides the point.

You practically said it for me.

It was very widely reported that the whole referendum was a big joke. Here's one snippet

Ah, interesting. Makes sense.

Crimean Tatars, mainly women and children, are fleeing the region to seek refuge in Western Ukraine or Turkey, although most trains and airplanes are fully booked. They fear retaliation for being pro-Ukrainian -


again google it, there is more out there, this is just one example.
UNPO: Crimean Tatars Call On International Community To Support Their Right To Self-Determination

The link leads to an article about declarations and the UN. Not one documenting and evidencing mass evacuations of Crimean Tatars. Given the lack of transportation in and out of Crimea in recent months, I don't see how large numbers of Tatars could have left (for purely physical reasons). In fact the biggest flow of traffic seems to be between Russia and Crimea, because Russia has been working to provide ferries and flights in and out of Crimea. Now maybe I'm wrong, but this is the impression that I've gathered. Ukrainian state media has reported on "Crimean refugees" but local Crimean sources disagree (http://www.pravda.ru/news/districts/south/crimea/26-03-2014/1201884-dzharalla-0/), and I'm not going to take Ukrainian media sources' word for it. In recent months they've turned to regularly printing garbage and outright lies so... yeah.

Actually representatives of the Crimean Tatars have stated that they do not intend to abandon their historic homeland, and will not leave. Instead they will fight for the recognition of their rights. Which would go directly against your claim of a mass exodus.

Note the mass rally in memory of victims of the deportation held recently. The situation is a little more complex then big bad Russia doing big bad things. That having been said, Putin's Russia is quite a bit less "live and let live" then Ukraine. So I have no doubt that aggressive steps have been taken against Tatar community leaders that are trying to take political stands.

I do agree that EU or Nato membership is a long way off, no doubt about that. Ukraine would have to institute numerous reforms before they would ever be considered for membership in either.

I'm not sure that they will ever get membership in either organization the way things are going. I don't see any political force in Ukraine that can make those reforms happen.

What I disagree about is that Ukraine would be better off long term in the Customs Union rather than the EU. One of the biggest things that Ukranians are upset about is corruption. It's rampant in the government and not just the previous administration, it goes back years. IMO joining the customs union would just institutionalize the corruption and eventually make Ukraine nothing more than a client state of Russia. Sure they would get a short term fix from the money Putin is willing to throw at them, but it is just that, a very short term fix.

The issue isn't EU vs Customs Union. The issue is guaranteed Customs Union membership vs. a remote potential EU membership. Absence of Customs Union membership has already been causing damage to the Ukrainian economy under Yanukovich. It will only get worse now.

The polish economy is the model they ought to be following. Since 1990 they have increased their GDP from USD $64.5 Billion to $489 billion, almost an 8 fold increase. Compare that to the russian model over the same time period, USD $516 billion to $2,014 billion, not quite a 4 fold increase. If you use constant dollars, it's much less.

Ukraine is not Poland, and the year is not 1990. I'm not an economist, but I doubt that a direct comparison is possible. If it is, I'd like to see what key factors have done this for the Poles, and whether those factors can be applied to Ukraine.

 

[Feanor]

Update.

Fighting in Slavyansk continues. The famous/infamous Babay has been wounded.

u_96:

This is our first concrete confirmation of rebel MANPADS. Rebels posing with Igla MANPADS. The source is unclear, though they may have come from the Ukrainian military as reported earlier. Or not.

bmpd -

Yet another map of the rebellion, also of questionable accuracy, and some good shots of rebel vehicles and weapons. This source claims that the MANPADS in the rebel photos are in Lugansk not Slavyansk, which would match up with earlier reports of MANPADS being captured in Lugansk by the rebels.

u_96:
Colonel Cassad -

Videos of the fighting, and the destroyed separatist train.

u_96:

We have confirmation of use of Vasilek mortars against separatist positions, inside a train. Also Ukrainian sources officially confirm the first use of artillery against the rebels, in an attempt to suppress rebel mortar fire.

Минометные раÑчеты ВС Украины открыли огонь по позициÑм ополченцев в СлавÑнÑке
u_96:
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2cUaSZ7eWE"]Ð’ СлавÑнÑке ÑтрелÑет Ñ‚ÑÐ¶ÐµÐ»Ð°Ñ Ð°Ñ€Ñ‚Ð¸Ð»ÐµÑ€Ð¸Ñ. - YouTube[/nomedia]

Also it looks like the rebels still have ammo for their Nona-S mortar. The rest of the post is videos, and obviously false rebel statements about 650 dead and wounded from the government side in the last 10 days.

u_96:

Ukrainian Su-27 has been sighted flying rings above Gorlovka. And 8 trucks of Donetsk Militia are in Gorlovka right now. Good photos of the jet in the second link.

Ðад Горловкой летает иÑтребитель Су-27 воздушных Ñил Украины
jerry24_it:

In Kramatorsk rebels have tried to negotiate with government troops at the airfield, demanding their surrender. However the troops officers have refused to let them surrender. The rebels also shot up the airfield. No casualties reported on either side.

Note, this means that the government troops did not leave the airfield like earlier reported, or returned to it recently after only a brief absence.

Meanwhile local sources claim that the airfield was shot up twice, and 5:00 and 10:00.

Минобороны Украины Ñообщило об обÑтреле военного аÑродрома в КраматорÑке
jerry24_it:

There are reports of a National Guard unit surrendering, and some of the personnel switching sides to the rebels, near Donetsk.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com ::  Äîíåöêå îêðóæåííàÿ ÷àñòü Íàöãâàðäèè ïåðåøëà íà ñòîðîíó ÄÍÐ. Âîçáóæäåíî äåëî îá èçìåíå

More photos of rebels in and around Slavyansk.

u_96:

A Buk regiment in Donetsk has been approached by Donetsk People's Republic representatives, demanding they surrender. The unit has not surrendered, and the Donetsk Republic has threatened to return with numbers.

Ð’Ð¾ÐµÐ½Ð½Ð°Ñ Ñ‡Ð°ÑÑ‚ÑŒ Ð-1402 в Донецке проÑит подкреплениÑ

Ukrainian sources claim that trucks with several hundred bodies will be leaving Ukraine to go to Russia, to conceal the identities of the dead. I think the number is unlikely, given the low death tolls so far. However the fact itself could be true.

NEWSru.com ::

Ukraine is proceeding with an Mi-24P upgrade. One has been upgraded so far, 4 more are being worked on. Russian blogger militarizm has completed his survey of flying Ukrainian Mi-24s, and has come up with the number 28 flyable helos. This may or may not include the 4 helos being upgraded right now (they may have restored non-flying helos to service with the upgrade, or upgraded already working ones).

УкраинÑкое предприÑтие Ðвиакон предÑтавило новую модификацию вертолета Ми-24П
bmpd -

A round table discussion about National Unity is being held in Kharkov, where an experiment has been suggested about economic self-sufficiency of the rebel provinces, as part of an autonomy deal. Of course it would be stupid of the rebels to accept with. Both Lugansk and Donetsk are massively in the red, as far as government budgets go.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: ßöåíþê âûñòóïèë çà óíèòàðíóþ Óêðàèíó è ïðåäëîæèë þãî-âîñòîêó ýêñïåðèìåíò ïî àâòîíîìèè

Meanwhile Donetsk has a new Prime Minister, who is a Russian citizen named Aleksandr Boroday. It remains to be seen what this means in practice.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: "Äîíåöêàÿ íàðîäíàÿ ðåñïóáëèêà" âûáðàëà "ïðåìüåð-ìèíèñòðà" - èì ñòàë ãðàæäàíèí Ðîññèè

The EU may sign the economic agreement with Ukraine on June 27th.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Åâðîñîþç ãîòîâ ïîäïèñàòü ýêîíîìè÷åñêóþ ÷àñòü àññîöèàöèè ñ Óêðàèíîé 27 èþíÿ

 

[SolarWind]

Ukraine is not Poland, and the year is not 1990. I'm not an economist, but I doubt that a direct comparison is possible. If it is, I'd like to see what key factors have done this for the Poles, and whether those factors can be applied to Ukraine.

In theory any developing country could achieve rapid economic growth like Poland. The main requirements for that would be sufficient investment in human and physical capital. If they invest, optimally, 33% of their GDP in each consistently, they will not only achieve a rapid growth in the short term but a stable increase in living standards in the long term.

Right now though it looks like GDP in Ukraine is rapidly decreasing, and with it living standards.

Edit: High corruption makes such investments problematic. If say 75% of invested funds are consistently stolen in the process then that will be a very big problem later on.

Edit 2: Sorry, I meant to say any developing country can achieve rapid economic growth, not just any country.

 

[Feanor]

In theory any country could achieve rapid economic growth like Poland. The main requirements for that would be sufficient investment in human and physical capital. If they invest, optimally, 33% of their GDP in each consistently, they will not only achieve a rapid growth in the short term but a stable increase in living standards in the long term.

Right now though it looks like GDP in Ukraine is rapidly decreasing, and with it living standards.

Worse then that, sectors producing things are being hit the hardest, especially industry, and to a lesser extent agriculture. Transporting things around the country has become expensive and difficult. Trade with Russia has taken a huge blow, and it accounts for a lot of their foreign trade. The mobilization of huge numbers of workers into the military certainly hasn't helped either. Neither has the feverish movements of troops all over the country, nor the counter-terrorist operation in the east.

 

[gf0012-aust]

In theory any developing country could achieve rapid economic growth like Poland. The main requirements for that would be sufficient investment in human and physical capital. If they invest, optimally, 33% of their GDP in each consistently, they will not only achieve a rapid growth in the short term but a stable increase in living standards in the long term.

Right now though it looks like GDP in Ukraine is rapidly decreasing, and with it living standards.

Edit: High corruption makes such investments problematic. If say 75% of invested funds are consistently stolen in the process then that will be a very big problem later on.

Edit 2: Sorry, I meant to say any developing country can achieve rapid economic growth, not just any country.

there are also cultural traits in play as well

when I lived in germany and was involved with some mil tech development we sub contracted some component work to polish companies. they were always on time, parts were high quality and they even suggested component technical improvements.

we had tried other countries in the region and work often came back sub standard, or often not on time

we dealt with ex WARPAC countries as the philosophy was to do what we could to give them a chance with new industry tech and opportunities.

polish companies went from contractors to partners really quickly.

 

[SolarWind]

there are also cultural traits in play as well

when I lived in germany and was involved with some mil tech development we sub contracted some component work to polish companies. they were always on time, parts were high quality and they even suggested component technical improvements.

we had tried other countries in the region and work often came back sub standard, or often not on time

we dealt with ex WARPAC countries as the philosophy was to do what we could to give them a chance with new industry tech and opportunities.

polish companies went from contractors to partners really quickly.

Trade with other countries and getting new technology are also very important for growth, especially getting new technology.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Trade with other countries and getting new technology are also very important for growth, especially getting new technology.

The issue with Ukraine has been interesting as quite a few of the ex WARPAC countries have been persistently telling the established NATO members that this was going to happen - and they started telling anyone who would listen that Putin would move as soon as the US had drawn down sufficient forces in Europe and defence funds across europe were tested and shrunk due to the impact of the GFC..

There are a few "we told you so's" happening in NATO at present.

eg Poland has asked for a perm NATO force to be based there and Latvia has asked for accelerated training with the US.

 

[Feanor]

Updates.

The rebels are officially recruiting volunteers into the Donetsk People's Militia.

Colonel Cassad -

There are unconfirmed reports that the rebels have attacked government forces from behind near Izyum, but information is lacking. If this is true, that means that the blockade around Slavyansk is still porous as all hell.

The rebels claim they have killed 7 government soldiers over the past 24 hours, as fighting continues around Slavyansk.

Colonel Cassad -

Government troops have attempted to attack Kramatorsk again, but so far it seems unsuccessfully. The government troops got fairly far into the city, but were allegedly pushed out again. A howitzer battery has been reported firing on Kramatorsk outskirts from the Karachun mountain.

There are also reports that 10 government soldiers tried to defect but were shot by the National Guard.

It also looks like parts of the city have lost water.

Colonel Cassad -
Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Ïîâñòàíöû ñîîáùàþò, ÷òî íå ïóñòèëè óêðàèíñêèå âîéñêà â Êðàìàòîðñê, ðàíåíà ñëó÷àéíàÿ ïðîõîæàÿ, â ãîðîäå íåò âîäû

Rebels claim they have destroyed 3 BTRs, 1 GAZ-66, and killed large numbers of government troops. However I'm skeptical. I'll post photographic confirmation if there is any.

u_96:

Polish Grom E2 MANPADS were captured from the rebels.

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - Про ÑтеÑнительноÑÑ‚ÑŒ

Ukraine arrested 3 Life News journalists, for filming preparations for an artillery barrage.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Ìèíîáîðîíû Óêðàèíû ïîäòâåðäèëî çàäåðæàíèå æóðíàëèñòîâ LifeNews, "ñíèìàâøèõ ïîäãîòîâêó ê îáñòðåëó àýðîäðîìà Êðàìàòîðñêà"

Some photos of Ukrainian MVD btln Donbass, deployed to Donetsk Region. Note the ancient machinegun. The machinegun in question looks like a DP-27. Probably old Soviet supplies. Though I have to wonder, are they this desperately low on weapons? Then again after the rebel PTRD, I guess we shouldn't be surprised. Their equipment actually looks bad even compared to some of the rebels. Which lends more and more credibility to the claims of Russian supplies.

If I'm not mistaken, btln Donbass is a Right Sector formation, now part of the MVD.

u_96:

 

[gf0012-aust]

I get daily updates which are then collated into one brief.

This came through as part of the daily maritime OSINT gathering...(this is a commercial feed)

The French intelligence ship FS Dupuy de Lome has entered the waters off Bulgaria’s port city Varna a day after its return to the Black Sea, a military source told RIA Novosti Thursday. "The French intelligence ship is now stationed in the western Black Sea, 30 miles away from the port of Varna," the source said. The intelligence vessel is designed for radar monitoring, as well as the collection of signals and communications behind enemy lines. It can also intercept phone calls and e-mails.

Under the Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits, ships belonging to countries that do not border the Black Sea are not allowed to stay in the area for more than 21 days. The agreement was earlier breached by the frigate USS Taylor, which stayed at a Turkish port 11 days over its limit. The Russian Foreign Ministry said that Turkey, a NATO member, had failed to inform Moscow about the violation. The Dupuy de Lome was earlier deployed to the Black Sea from April 11 to April 30, after the standoff between Moscow and Kiev led to the Crimean peninsula’s secession from Ukraine and reunification with Russia

 

[Waylander]

Their warehouses probably got sold out empty in the past 20 years with the remaining stuff slowly rotting away.

I can believe that current rebel weapons stocks are either personal or looted stuff. But their only hope in arming their new enlarged militia should be support by Russia.

 

[kato]

Their warehouses probably got sold out empty in the past 20 years with the remaining stuff slowly rotting away.

Not so much 20 years.

Ukraine published a list of stocked equipment for sale about five years ago, mostly containing about three million small arms of 1930s to 1950s vintage (including lend-lease) and similar-aged personal equipment and spare parts. A number of single-fire/semi-auto weapons of this stock went on the US private firearms market, but i doubt they found many takers for the rest of it.

 

[Waylander]

That explains the MG42 I saw on some pictures...

They must have inherited millions of small arms from the SU as well as tons of other stuff. And now they have problems of adequatly arming their reservists and national guard. It's a shame.

 

[Twain]

How little you understand the nature of corruption in those countries... And that is a good thing. You grew up in a healthy society (in this respect) and think just like the western propaganda on the Ukraine subject wants you to think.
I should tell you that it's likely unimaginable to you how much corruption has permeated those societies (Russia and Ukraine). Almost all of human relations requiring some sort of exchange of anything of value, be it monetary, business or labor, or exertion of any effort for someone else are done through a combination of personal favoritism and payoffs. If anything, it's even worse in Ukraine.
IMO, what western societies don't understand is that this situation is not the result of bad governments, but such governments are the result of this cultural peculiarity. And no amount of association with EU or any other "holy" alliance will change that. Any such change must come from within the society. And it can't be just "done". It's a slow evolution that the society has to go through, enabled most of all by high living standards in a developed economy. It's not an invention of my fantasy, if one pays attention to history it would be obvious.
And the question of how to get Ukrainian economy to that level is very much unclear. What is clear is that whatever they decide, strategically they have no option but to have the best relationship with Russia possible. Otherwise their economy stands no chance - they're just not competitive with the western markets, they need the Russian market. And of course there are cultural ties, making them essential the same peoples in most respects but that's besides the point.

I understand all that and that is why I said EU membership is a long way off but to say it can't happen is contradicted by evidence in other countries.I agree the corruption on that scale is, for lack of a better word, cultural. But other countries have gotten beyond this to greater and lesser degrees. Several central european were notoriously corrupt, maybe not as bad as Ukraine but well below Eu standards. They had a will to join the EU and they did institute reforms in order to get that mambership. Many of them still have problems with corruption but to a large extent they did and still are working on this. The point being, a majority do favor EU membership and in order to get that they will have to reform.


A few of the polls and several of the "talking heads" have even suggested that controlling corruption is one of the primary reasons they want EU membership.
It won't be easy and it takes a lot of political will to do so but other countries have shown it can be done. Joining the customs union certainly won't do anything to control corruption.

 

[Feanor]

That explains the MG42 I saw on some pictures...

They must have inherited millions of small arms from the SU as well as tons of other stuff. And now they have problems of adequatly arming their reservists and national guard. It's a shame.

Well maybe. They did pull some truly ancient stuff out of the old mineshafts, that were being used as weapon storage. But I suspect that this is more the case that the Right Sector formations were given the older stuff. The actual National Guard have been running around with AKs.

Ukraine is an industrial country, and AKs are pretty easy to manufacture. I wonder why they don't just get a production line going for the AK-74.

EDIT: Note the PPSh, T-34, etc. The posts author ascribes symbolic significance, and claims that it serves to solidify the ideological framework as one of a struggle against fascism. I'm not convinced. But it is interesting how many WWII weapons are still usable today.

u-96.livejournal.com/3425043.html

 

[Feanor]

Update.

A number of Sokol MVD SpetzNaz surrendered to the rebels. They were escorting a number of government procuracy workers, and were surrounded by rebels.

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - Про Ñдачу в плен "Ягуара"

Rebel PTRS.

http://i.imgur.com/4cDeU8K.jpg

A closeup of the Polish MANPADS shows that they were modified using Russian components.

ЧаÑтный руÑÑкий журнал - Ðеоднозначный Гром

A few self-explanatory videos from the conflict zone.

http://u-96.livejournal.com/3425646.html

In Kramatorsk the procuracy building was captured. And a couple of rebel BRDM-2s were sighted.

jerry24-it.livejournal.com/100135.html

An Su-24MR was sighted too.

jerry24-it.livejournal.com/99701.html

More videos out of Slavyansk.

http://jerry24-it.livejournal.com/98218.html#cutid1

It looks like some of the Ukrainian airborne soldiers are being unofficially sent to Slavyansk, while their own chain of command claims that they're on training exercises near Lugansk. This situation came to light when some of them ended up wounded in a military hospital, while records showed that they were on a training exercise unrelated to the counter-terrorist operation.

Ð*аненных деÑантников в гоÑпитале Харькова могут объÑвить дезертирами

An 11-year old Russian girl, who was visiting relatives in Slavyansk, was finally evacuated from the city using a diplomatic car.

*

Ukraine requests used military equipment from the US.

Lenta.ru:

NATO civilian specialists are being sent to Ukraine to consult on increasing security of nuclear power plants.

*

 

[Feanor]

Update.

An exchange of mortar and artillery fire near Slavyansk between the rebels, and government troops.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Ìåæäó óêðàèíñêèìè âîåííûìè è ñòîðîííèêàìè ôåäåðàëèçàöèè ïîä Ñëàâÿíñêîì è Êðàìàòîðñêîì èäåò ïåðåñòðåëêà "èç ãàóáèö è ìèíîìåòîâ"

Continuing fire-fights in and around Slavyansk. An Su-24MR sighted flying over the city, firing off it's flares.

jerry24_it:

Artillery fire at night in Slavyansk has destroyed 5 homes, and damaged a middle school and a trolley-bus stop. 2 civilians are reported dead. The rebel mayor Ponomarev has promised compensation for the destroyed homes.

jerry24_it:
tutuskania:

Rinat Akhemtov, a Ukrainian oligarch who controls mines and metallurgical plants in the east, has called on his workers to go on strike in support of peace.

 

Meanwhile since his statement about support of united Ukraine, the Donetsk Republic demanded that he pick a side. It seems he's on Kiev's side. Now they've declared that they're nationalizing his assets. Lets see what happens.

Colonel Cassad -

A British RT journalist, Phillips, has been detained by the Ukrainian military in Donbass. This seems to be part of a pattern of accelerating detention of journalists in the east. And it's being done by both sides.

u_96:

The Ukrainian government has ordered 154 BTR-4s for the MoD, and 40 for the MVD. The question is, with what money. I suspect that the foreign aid they're getting is going to go into the military.

I also wonder about how long it will take.

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - Заказ на БТР-4

Also a number of Ukrainian Mi-24s have been spotted flying with the Adros anti-MANPADS system. Several helicopters have been sighted with the system, and it's being installed in field conditions, without overhaul or repairs on the rest of the aircraft. It's effectiveness remains to be seen.

bmpd -

The EU is sending the first 100 mln euro to Ukraine.url=http://sokol-ff.livejournal.com/796142.html]ЧаÑтный руÑÑкий журнал - 100 миллионов евро[/url]

 

[alexkvaskov]

Is it possible that the BTR buy is also to quiet down the industrial workers in the east? Granted I don't actually know where it's produced but maybe I'm reading too much into this. After all, there's a war going on and they need equipment. Realistically, how soon could these BTRs be fielded? More importantly, do they even have personnel trained for the new vehicle?

 

[Feanor]

Is it possible that the BTR buy is also to quiet down the industrial workers in the east? Granted I don't actually know where it's produced but maybe I'm reading too much into this. After all, there's a war going on and they need equipment. Realistically, how soon could these BTRs be fielded? More importantly, do they even have personnel trained for the new vehicle?

They're unfinished vehicles from the Iraqi contract, so they could be delivered relatively quick. That having been said, don't expect to see them turning up near Slavyansk tomorrow. They're probably buying them because under current circumstances the military is finally a priority. So they're buying what they can to modernize. A lot of it is not particularly sensible (like buying BTR-4s that the MoD turned down because it wasn't up to the their standards, which is why a new BTR-4 variant was in the works for the MoD).