the chat appears to be around whether the SU22 fleet should be JSF rather than F16's
F-35 - International Participation
- Thread starter OPSSG
- Start date
I'd suggest that's a pretty fair assumption and plan...
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Sorry for the delayed response. If only mentioned the USMC IOC date because any delay in this event (relatively easier 2B software version) will be used by F-35 critics in Canada as proof that the more capable 3F software will be even later.
Canada is considering the F-35A but I wonder if the F-35B might be more useful. STOVL would allow Canada to work with our allies with maritime aviation capability. More of our sub-standard airfields in the North could be used eliminating the expense of improving them. Canadian forces have worked with the USMC just as often as the US Army, perhaps more so. JSF advocates have promoted the F-35 as a CAS platform that works from on high in relative safety. As Canada has no attack helicopters or prop fighters, perhaps the F-35B should be given more consideration. The glacial pace of our procurement system should allow the F-35B ample time to prove itself....the A vs B price differential can be overcome if DND can explain the benefits.
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John Fedup
The Bunker Group
I am not sure signed contracts can be cancelled for Cdn companies currently producing components for the JSF, certainly this would likely happen to future contracts. Cdn industry and LM have both done a piss poor job of explaining the industrial benefits to Canada with or without a JSF purchase. I don't think I have seen a single press article comparing the benefits of a 60-80 jet purchase from the completion (i.e. industrial offsets) as compared to the benefits of Cdn companies winning contracts for a 1500 (pessimistic) to 4000+ (optimistic) on JSF work. If DND, Cdn aviation industrial partners, and the Cdn govt want the JSF then had better get their $hit together RFN!
the canadians were the poster child for how to get JSF contracts - and caused some angst amongst some of the partners as there was concern about what quality contracts were left
you can assume that those contracts are constrained by an issue of vendor host country fleet purchases...
you can assume that those contracts are constrained by an issue of vendor host country fleet purchases...
t68
Well-Known Member
It would be a bit late now once full rate production picks up, it would affect the production slots and how long would it take another country to ramp up production and the product tested to meet quality assurance that might be the problem, you would have a better idea than me GF could it be done?
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
The Ottawa Citizen is continuing with guest writers discussing possible jet alternatives for Canada. This week, it is the Typhoon.
the road runner
Active Member
IAI is expected to build 811 wingsets for the JSF.
IAI on course for JSF wing deliveries - IHS Jane's 360
A 2.5 billion dollar contract for IAI. That's a good deal for Israel i am just curious why they get such a huge contract to build wing sets?
IAI on course for JSF wing deliveries - IHS Jane's 360
A 2.5 billion dollar contract for IAI. That's a good deal for Israel i am just curious why they get such a huge contract to build wing sets?
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
I am sure there are JSF partners who put up money at the start of this program are asking your question as well. It also provides fodder for JSF critics who claim the contract awards for partners will provide less return than the traditional offsets normally provided by manufacturers.
Israel's order provided a measure of stability by assuring production at a time when speculation about US and partner-nation order cutbacks,was rife. IIRC PM Netanyahu was even expressing interest in Boeing's SE to maintain it's edge in the air. The F-35 order (with production incentives) was a boost to the program, it assured continued Israeli military dominance and it also muted any Israel objections to the massive arms sale to Saudi Arabia that was being negotiated at the time.
the road runner
Active Member
Have other partner nations who have not won as much work ,been upset by Israel winning such a lucrative contract? I mean a 2.5 billion dollar win for IAI is not pocket change.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Some of the partner nations which not yet placed firm orders can not whine about this yet. Certainly the UK and Norway should have whining rights if they feel their contract wins are not sufficient.
If memory serves there were several potential contractors who shot themselves in the foot when attempting to secure the work, in Australia anyway - I really can't remember the specifics though but GF could probably give a much better explanation. It came up in a discussion a fairly long time ago so please excuse my vagueness.
Membership in the consortium does not automatically translate into workshare. The JPO must have confidence that a partner-country's industry has the expertise and resources to deliver before they can be considered.,Some countries have been supportive of their industries' efforts to get a piece of the pie, others not so. Not surprisingly, the former have garnered the lion's share of work to this point.
the road runner
Active Member
Thanx for the input guys.I also assume Israel may order more JSF to replace their F-16 fleet. If they do replace F-16 on a 1 to 1 ration with JSF we are talking 300(approx) planes.
Cheers
Stems from when I attended an AIDN meeting in Victoria. Some members/companies/attendees tried to tell the Minister that we should "tell" LM that we would only buy JSF if minimum work allocations of various components was guaranteed to Australian companies,
It was an embarassing meeting - I did note the SAAB and Boeing industry contacts grinning their heads off....
You guys probably all know this by now, but i'll put it up anyway.
F-35 to make its first international debut in the UK when 3 F-35B's (2 USMC & 1 UK) will travel to the UK to participate at the Royal International Air Tattoo Fairford and the Farnborough International Air Show.
The UK F-35 will be flown by a UK pilot
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/f-35-lightning-ii-jet-to-make-maiden-british-flight
F-35 to make its first international debut in the UK when 3 F-35B's (2 USMC & 1 UK) will travel to the UK to participate at the Royal International Air Tattoo Fairford and the Farnborough International Air Show.
The UK F-35 will be flown by a UK pilot
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/f-35-lightning-ii-jet-to-make-maiden-british-flight
Will be interesting to see whether thats a full on traditional airshow flogging, where they put it through it the its paces while maneuvering, or whether this is a STOVL demonstration with some basic straight line flying.
Those airshows always get pretty good videos on youtube should be some decent non-LM produced videos.
Those airshows always get pretty good videos on youtube should be some decent non-LM produced videos.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Defence-aerospace is reporting Australia will get 58 F-35As for A10.8 billion. This price includes the engines, support, and training and works out to $179m US per jet. The CDN gov is still throwing the 10b number for 65 jets including support and training. Hard to believe Canada would be paying 25m less per jet.