Royal Air Force [RAF] discussions and updates
- Thread starter neil
- Start date
Depends how the US wants to play it, as of right now the USAF has a trump card which nobody can match. What if they want to keep it that way?
If it did become international, it'd probably be an incredibly closed group open only to the most secure allies of the US rather than the export drive the F-35 is.
Indeed. A 6Gen jet may likely follow the F-22 rather than F-35 in terms of export availability.
I suppose the thing is the F-35 is far in advance of the F-22 in many ways but being a physically smaller aircraft there are some things it will not be able to do as well as a larger airframe. This logically leaves space for a larger, longer range, higher performance aircraft to complement the F-35
what happens with the new bomber program will be very interesting and the follow on after that. How close to a strike eagle or F111 or whether it will be much larger B1b or something similar and also who wins the contract.
The US has a separate long range strike program, I am on my smart phone at the moment so I can't find you a link. Maybe someone else can help with this?
Both the USAF and USN had previously issued solicitations to industry giving broad outlines of the types of capabilities/missions envisioned for their future 6Gen platforms and the feedback they receive should help inform on any final decisions.
To my novice eye, there seems to be a lot of overlap in their respective wishlist. The big difference would seem to be in the need for ship-based operations but perhaps the perceived benefits of a joint program may once again hold sway.
http://defensetech.org/2012/04/16/the-navy-kicks-off-the-search-for-its-next-fighter/
http://defensetech.org/2010/11/05/air-force-kicks-off-search-for-6th-gen-fighter/
To my novice eye, there seems to be a lot of overlap in their respective wishlist. The big difference would seem to be in the need for ship-based operations but perhaps the perceived benefits of a joint program may once again hold sway.
http://defensetech.org/2012/04/16/the-navy-kicks-off-the-search-for-its-next-fighter/
http://defensetech.org/2010/11/05/air-force-kicks-off-search-for-6th-gen-fighter/
Long Range Strike - Bomber LRS-B
B-52 payload - 70,000 lbs
B-1B payload - 75,000 lbs
B-2 payload - 40,000 lbs
LRS-B projected payload - 28,000lbs
Production quantities initially 120 for combat ops, now numbers being thrown around as 80 - 100 with a price tag of $550mn per aircraft. High subsonic, 60,000ft, 2000nm unrefuelled combat radius, high networkability to provide targeting info for 'legacy' bombers with stand off weaponry, advanced sensor suite, maybe AAMs, optionally unmanned for non-nuclear missions, VLO airframe to penetrate defended airspace.
I'd say it probably will be a joint program, when sat alongside the F-35 program it's clear that by-and-large the more severe engineering challenges sat with the B with the A and C versions going relatively smoothly bar the latters problem with it's tail hook.
Would it be a bad thing? Not particularly IMO, question being for the AF would this be the follow on to the F-15 series and to supplement the F-22? Because if that's a yes, and it's a supplement as opposed to something which will become the replacement for the F-22 then it could well become an international program with less caveats than originally thought the way that the F-15 has developed.
For the RAF, the timeframe of 2030 might be a bit soon and this is because the Typhoon right now is lacking a number of systems that allow it to unlock it's full potential which come with the Tranche 3 (and to a degree Tranche 2 IIRC) with ability to fit an AESA radar & conformal fuel tanks. Add on integration of Storm Shadow, Meteor and Brimstone 2 onto that list too as well as probably a wider selection of the Paveway series.
But if the projected time is 2030, then it'll probably be more like 2040 which by that time makes the Typhoon getting close to 40 years old.
Interesting aircraft specs though.
Assuming we're talking future fighter and not LRSB then I suspect it'd go the same route as F35 - these programs are getting expensive to run on a single nation business, even for the US.
Japan? Who else? Australia effectively is plugged into F35A for the foreseeable future - the UK may be a fit as we'd want a replacement for Tiffy by the mid 2030's. I think we can rule out the Dutch and Canadians. South Korea?
Well Australia is only talking 75 F-35A with a separate buy of 25 aircraft, likely to be F-35A to follow. The 25 may be F-35 or UCAV or something new. They may be replacements for the Super Hornets or even a supplement to them if the RAAF is able to swing government thinking that the Growler versions of the SH (plus a number of supporting airframes I suppose) is actually an ISR asset and not a combat asset so falls outside those projects and numbers.
Which ever way there is there is the flexibility to change tack to a new project if the need arises.
Or... to shoot one to left field, they might be F 35B's
Would love it if it were so but reality and all that.....Or... to shoot one to left field, they might be F 35B's
Then again three Hyuga type DDHs with half a dozen F-35B each would be a very nice complement to the AWDs.
Definitely future fighter, I would personally oppose LRS-B for the UK with the current budget.
I'd be quite interested to see if France would get in on it, it's roughly the same timeframe as the end of the Rafale and if it becomes a USAF/USN joint program then it'll be CATOBAR capable - interoperability with the USN and all that.
Basically it could possibly be the list of F-35 users, the US won't sell fighters like this to countries it realistically thinks it could be fighting in the near future.
the concerned
Active Member
I think it will depend on the intended weaponry for the aircraft. If it stick's with missile technology it may become a international project but if the US intend on using direct energy weaponry then it will definetly stay a US project only.
Air Force Brat
Member
I think with the Canberra undergoing trials that F-35Bs would be a very "smart" acqistion, to go along with theAs.Or... to shoot one to left field, they might be F 35B's
t68
Well-Known Member
I think a couple of Squadrons of B's would fit in the RAAF very nicely gives the Airforce more options on how and where it deploys. The F35B will have the ability make use its 'forward operating’ abilty into semi prepared areas where the F35A or Super Hornets need a more prepared environment. We don't have to rush into getting the STOVL variant, and I would put a bet on the RAAF getting the aircraft when the times is right.
http://elementsofpower.blogspot.com.au/2011/08/f35b-agitprop-ala-sweetman.html?m=1
Know that we have C27-J on the horizon it would make the ability to support such a idea plausible along with CH-47F
UK aircraft availability rates have been released as a snapshot on March 11th 2014.
Definitions of fleet type:
Forward: "comprises aircraft which are serviceable and those which are short-term unserviceable. Short-term unserviceable aircraft are undergoing minor works, forward maintenance or any other unforeseen rectification or technical inspection work that can arise on a day-to-day basis."
Depth: "comprises aircraft which are undergoing planned depth maintenance, upgrade programmes and fleet management temporary storage, but excludes those which are redundant, declared as surplus or awaiting disposal."
Not great considering the external contracts awarded for the maintenance of the aircraft plus internal activities. Never the less out of those serviceable aircraft we could deploy a significant number of fighters depending on the requirements needing to be met.
- Aircraft Type - Forward Fleet - Depth Fleet
- Typhoon - 85 - 32
- Tornado - 72 - 30
- Sentinel - 3 - 2
- C-17 - 6 - 2
- C-130J - 15 - 9
- TriStar - 6 - 0
Definitions of fleet type:
Forward: "comprises aircraft which are serviceable and those which are short-term unserviceable. Short-term unserviceable aircraft are undergoing minor works, forward maintenance or any other unforeseen rectification or technical inspection work that can arise on a day-to-day basis."
Depth: "comprises aircraft which are undergoing planned depth maintenance, upgrade programmes and fleet management temporary storage, but excludes those which are redundant, declared as surplus or awaiting disposal."
Not great considering the external contracts awarded for the maintenance of the aircraft plus internal activities. Never the less out of those serviceable aircraft we could deploy a significant number of fighters depending on the requirements needing to be met.
Little flurry of news of Reaper, well recently Brimstone firing trials from a Reaper UAV conducted in the US have been successful. 9 live firings were done between a range of 7 - 12 miles at a range of maximum 20,000ft and targets at speeds of up to 70 miles an hour.
MBDA details Brimstone success from Reaper - 3/26/2014 - Flight Global
There has also been interest in upgrading Reaper with the capability to drop Paveway IV guided bomb, which would increase the variety of weapons integrated onto the aircraft
UK to test Paveway IV from Reaper UAV - News - Shephard
Exporting Paveway IV to Saudi Arabia isn't too shabby either.
Saudi Arabia becomes first Paveway IV export customer - IHS Jane's 360
EDIT: Oh, and from the grape vine F-35 LRIP 9 long lead orders contains 6 UK F-35B. So right now it's 4 in LRIP 8 + 6 in LRIP 9, from the knowledge of a 14 aircraft order that'll be 4 in LRIP-10
MBDA details Brimstone success from Reaper - 3/26/2014 - Flight Global
There has also been interest in upgrading Reaper with the capability to drop Paveway IV guided bomb, which would increase the variety of weapons integrated onto the aircraft
UK to test Paveway IV from Reaper UAV - News - Shephard
Exporting Paveway IV to Saudi Arabia isn't too shabby either.
Saudi Arabia becomes first Paveway IV export customer - IHS Jane's 360
EDIT: Oh, and from the grape vine F-35 LRIP 9 long lead orders contains 6 UK F-35B. So right now it's 4 in LRIP 8 + 6 in LRIP 9, from the knowledge of a 14 aircraft order that'll be 4 in LRIP-10
Boeing cuts the remaining production of the C-17 by 3 aircraft to reflect the declining demand for their aircraft, the UK was rumoured to be in talks with Boeing about a 9th aircraft so hopefully we do not represent the declining demand.
Boeing cuts final C-17 output by three jets, ends production early | Reuters
As part of Joint Warrior 14-1 the RAF have been exercising with 16 Air Assault Brigade involving Hercules and Merlin/Puma aircraft. For an exercise that has typically been more of a naval affair it's good to read about other elements of our response forces being exercised.
Air Assault Training
Boeing cuts final C-17 output by three jets, ends production early | Reuters
As part of Joint Warrior 14-1 the RAF have been exercising with 16 Air Assault Brigade involving Hercules and Merlin/Puma aircraft. For an exercise that has typically been more of a naval affair it's good to read about other elements of our response forces being exercised.
Air Assault Training