Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[the road runner]

With the RAAF having a Wedgetail AWAC's based of the 737 and now the P-8 being chosen ,this has got to be a good thing for the maintenance crews.

How much of the maintenance will overlap?
Engines and basic avionics of the two types of 737 are similar/same?

Edit. Also is there a need for a JSTAR type system for the RAAF?
I do recall that a JSTAR based off the 737 with some F-18 growler ESM was offered to the US by Boeing

 

[rand0m]

So in other words you're saying we should take this article with a grain of salt? Potentially 8 P-8's & 7 MQ-4C's? Or even 12 P-8's & 7 MQ-4C's?

Abbott government to buy long-range surveillance unmanned drone | News.com.au

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

 

[RobWilliams]

Boeing have been pitching the P-8 AGS at the USAF for a while now for the replacement of their E-8's, but right now their budget priorities are the F-35 & KC-46 as well as the initial phases of the LRS-B program.

The main difference between the standard P-8 and the P-8 AGS is that the latter has a canoe (Advanced Airbourne Sensor)mounted onto the belly which is a big AESA radar and has a very good GMTI capability. The aircraft itself would have an expanded A2G capability to match.

Although this is being considered as one option, others being refurbishment of the E-8 fleet or using business jets as the base.

The USN isn't interested in the AAS, they want their fleet to be core naval missions as opposed to what we've seen of P-3's flying overland fighting insurgents. Part of the US swing to the Pacific is the gearing away from insurgency operations into focusing more onto fighting a near peer power.

 

[rand0m]

I was reading an old article the other day, is there any chance that the RAAF could adopt a Reaper, Avenger, Mariner type of UAV in greater numbers over the Triton/Global Hawk?

Australia moves to buy $3b spy drone fleet - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[ADMk2]

I was reading an old article the other day, is there any chance that the RAAF could adopt a Reaper, Avenger, Mariner type of UAV in greater numbers over the Triton/Global Hawk?

Australia moves to buy $3b spy drone fleet - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

ADF is looking at a tiered, complementary UAV / UAS force I believe. I don 't believe a MALE UAV such as Reaper would come at the expense of our BAMS solution...

Rather it would be an expanded and increased capability beyond the MALE solution we already have in-service, ie: IAI Heron.

 

[John Fedup]

Although this is being considered as one option, others being refurbishment of the E-8 fleet or using business jets as the

Boeing has partnered with Field Aviation to build a "P-8" light based on Bombardier's 605 business jet. Although it will be less capable the cost is about one third that of a P-8.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Boeing has partnered with Field Aviation to build a "P-8" light based on Bombardier's 605 business jet. Although it will be less capable the cost is about one third that of a P-8.

canada has prior form on going "light" - eg the auroras were a P3 with essentially an S2 suite - and they were pretty effective on the job

 

[John Fedup]

canada has prior form on going "light" - eg the auroras were a P3 with essentially an S2 suite - and they were pretty effective on the job

It looks like the Auroras will have to be effective for many years to come as the govt recently announced a billion dollar upgrade for them to extend their service. Given their record in trying to obtain new kit, the upgrade path is likely the best way to maintain capability until these fools can learn how to define a need for replacement, write a specification, obtain funding, and then issue a RFP that won't be challenged in court.

 

[blackhornetsqn]

RAAF's new GPU Cams

So the RAAF had decided to go Blue with their new General Purpose Uniform (GPU) and openly state they are not designed to be camouflage. Just a branding exercise.

Well what good is branding when the enemy is approaching.

Since we are all on the same team, I don't see what is wrong with the RAAF just adopting the Australian Army's new multicam pattern. Surely that would be a better logistics and tactical choice (two very important military considerations)

If the hierarchy really wants a different style, then a desaturated grey version of the multicam uniform would have been better.

View attachment 6189

First pic of Blue Cams shown in public at 100 Years of Aviation celebration in Melbourne.

View attachment 6187

RAAF's official photo of GPU's

View attachment 6188

 

[blackhornetsqn]

Did this for a laugh!

View attachment 6190

 

[Goknub]

You do have to give credit to the RAAF for the effort they put into selling and marketing themselves. I think it is a key reason, other than capability, that they can squeeze out funding for C27s, P8s etc.

The Army would be in a much better position if they took a few lessons from the RAAF.

 

[Volkodav]

Staff work and self promotion is the key skill of the RAAF and the RAF for that matter. Did Hitler cancel the invasion of the UK because of the RAFs performance in the Battle of Britain or was it the fact that they had no counter for the RN and what they would do to any invasion fleet? Both are fair arguments but one was made much better and is burned into the public psych. (p.s. IMO the RN deterrent was also reliant air support but politicisation ignores the reality of combined arms and joint efforts).

A current fiction is too much money was spent on the RAN prior to WWII and not enough on the RAAF which placed Australia at risk of invasion from Japan. A more accurate statement would be not enough money was spent on defence overall leaving all three services under equipped for the type of war hinted in the preceding conflicts in Spain and China. Also the RAAF had time to expand and did, the issue is their formidable numbers were completely integrated with the RAF and fighting overseas leaving nothing at home for national defence, this was a political choice but demonstrates the lie that national security was put at risk by spending money on the RAN instead of the RAAF pre-war.

Imagine the difference half a dozen squadrons of Vickers Wellesleys and a couple of squadrons of Gloster Gladiators, bought at greater expense instead on the RANs three modified Leander class light cruisers, would have made in 1942.:roll2

 

[John Fedup]

You do have to give credit to the RAAF for the effort they put into selling and marketing themselves. I think it is a key reason, other than capability, that they can squeeze out funding for C27s, P8s etc.

The Army would be in a much better position if they took a few lessons from the RAAF.

The sad fact is that military services have to compete for funding from a constantly shrinking pie. Australia seems to have a bigger pie than Canada since most Australians realize national defence is in fact important and costs money. Canada, like Australia, spent a $hitload of money on Afghanistan with questionable results. In Canada's case, most of the Afghanistan expenditure was on transportation and army requirements. Transportation was addressed by new CH-147s Chinooks, 4 C-17s and 15 new C-130Js. We now need new fighters and new naval ships at the same time! This screwup was only possible because we live next-door to a superpower and this allows for incompetence by our politicians in obtaining new defence kit. The CH-148 cyclone project is a prime example.

Perhaps the RCN should take notes from the
RAAF on how to get their kit made a priority.

 

[gf0012-aust]

You do have to give credit to the RAAF for the effort they put into selling and marketing themselves. I think it is a key reason, other than capability, that they can squeeze out funding for C27s, P8s etc.

The Army would be in a much better position if they took a few lessons from the RAAF.

You would be hard pressed not to run the argument that RAAF have effectively managed to work out how they can get what they want wrt Govt because of changes in their strategy when dealing with the Exec.

If I was a snr sir in the other services I would be visiting RAAF political strategy to get better results.

 

[the road runner]

You do have to give credit to the RAAF for the effort they put into selling and marketing themselves. I think it is a key reason, other than capability, that they can squeeze out funding for C27s, P8s etc.

I tend to see it as we are just updating old equipment.

19 P-3 Orions replaced by 8-12 P-8
18 DHC-4 Caribou replaced by10 C-27

If anything i would think the new Growlers purchased are a new capability

 

[gf0012-aust]

I tend to see it as we are just updating old equipment.

19 P-3 Orions replaced by 8-12 P-8
18 DHC-4 Caribou replaced by10 C-27

If anything i would think the new Growlers purchased are a new capability

Nope

they got C17's due to smart marketing
they got interest re-started on UAS due to smart marketing
they got light/med transport back on the agenda due to smart marketing
they got some comms capability in over and above due to smart marketing

they're doing better than the other services due to a change in their approach

 

[the road runner]

Nope

they got C17's due to smart marketing
they got interest re-started on UAS due to smart marketing
they got light/med transport back on the agenda due to smart marketing
they got some comms capability in over and above due to smart marketing

they're doing better than the other services due to a change in their approach

Cheers.

I could see the C-17 as a new capability and so to the Growlers but assumed the P-8 and bou were just an upgrade.Keep on marketing RAAF!

 

[blackhornetsqn]

Alright the RAAF has officially launched the GPU's today.

The link to their website:
w .w .w .airforce.gov.au/About-us/About-the-RAAF/Air-Force-General-Purpose-Uniform

 

[ASSAIL]

You would be hard pressed not to run the argument that RAAF have effectively managed to work out how they can get what they want wrt Govt because of changes in their strategy when dealing with the Exec.

If I was a snr sir in the other services I would be visiting RAAF political strategy to get better results.

At the expense of offending, I would suggest that the RAAF lobbyists have a lot more time sitting in offices than the grunts and the sailors. Not too many of their total numbers sit in planes and even then, not for long.
Plenty of time for Staff Work.

 

[gf0012-aust]

At the expense of offending, I would suggest that the RAAF lobbyists have a lot more time sitting in offices than the grunts and the sailors. Not too many of their total numbers sit in planes and even then, not for long.
Plenty of time for Staff Work.

They kept a strong internal engineering cadre as well - always helps