Russian Air Force News & Discussion

[Feanor]

It has a very big area to cover, though. Are those 8-9 A-50 enough for that?

Depends on what you're thinking of. From what I understand they use ground-based radars for general airspace control. If a conflict arises, A-50s would be deployed to that particular combat zone. 8-9 airframes is enough to keep 1 in the air permanently, given a small conflict zone that could be enough. Like I said, I recall reading that they want a full 12, and the A-50U will serve alongside the A-100 for quite some time, so total numbers might be even higher then that. The real problem is their centralized deployment. EW, ELINT/SIGINT, and AEW aircraft are currently at centralized bases, and if a conflict arises in one of the MDs they would have to be detached there. It would be helpful to give these platforms over to the MDs command so that they don't have to wait on central authorization, or coordinate with GenHQ on employment of these essential force multipliers.

Look at how long it took to get some basic EW over Georgia during the '08 war. That was the reason they gave MD commanders total control over VVS tactical assets (frontal aviation). I'm not sure how much this has helped, though Russian sources seem to think so. It would make sense (if this is working) to do the same for the force multipliers that the frontal aviation needs.

Alltough there are large gaps, Russia have Massive Land based Radar stations scattered around.

Do VVS need to have one or two A-50U up on mission all the time, isn't it enough to have twu A-50U on an QRA standby?

From what I understand most (if not all) of the gaps have been closed as of late 2012. A bunch of articles surfaced then about the closing of radar gaps in the Russian radar field in the Arctic and the Far East. If they're closing gaps in the Arctic, I doubt there are problems in Central Russia or southern Siberia.

They're also deploying a second network of massive strategic radars, of the Container type. There are single jump OTH radars, with the second expected to enter service by the end of this year. Again this seems to point at relatively few problems with a basic radar coverage.

Now that there are radars who can see that space does not mean that the density of GBAD sensors is the same everywhere, or even up to a certain high standard everywhere. There are places where radar coverage is undoubtedly minimal. Also a lot of the PVO radars are mobile, like the new Nebo systems. So in periods of threat, additional air-space control assets will undoubtedly be redeployed to address the threat.

 

[alexkvaskov]

The real problem is their centralized deployment. EW, ELINT/SIGINT, and AEW aircraft are currently at centralized bases, and if a conflict arises in one of the MDs they would have to be detached there.

Is there any logical explanation or reasoning for this?

From what I understand most (if not all) of the gaps have been closed as of late 2012. A bunch of articles surfaced then about the closing of radar gaps in the Russian radar field in the Arctic and the Far East.

And they're still building more Voronezh OTH arrays for redundant coverage in iirc Orenburg, Barnaul and Krasnoyarsk. Where is the second Container likely to be located?

I was also wondering what the situation is like with civilian air search and control radars being integrated with military assets.. if that's possible or something a nation would do.

 

[Feanor]

Is there any logical explanation or reasoning for this?

Soviet love for centralizing command and control of assets? Honestly I don't know. I do know that the Soviets operated in a similar manner with regards to AEW, but there was a lot more ELINT/SIGINT, EW platforms, so they were more dispersed. Even today some of the EW is under local command, and some central. But all the big stuff is centralized.

And they're still building more Voronezh OTH arrays for redundant coverage in iirc Orenburg, Barnaul and Krasnoyarsk. Where is the second Container likely to be located?

Voronezh is not OTH. Container is. I don't know, but if I see it I'll say.

I was also wondering what the situation is like with civilian air search and control radars being integrated with military assets.. if that's possible or something a nation would do.

I have no idea.

EDIT: The second Container is planned in the Far East.

http://www.arms-expo.ru/049057054050124051052057056056.html

 

[Klaus]

In the new Combat Aircraft Monthly I read that the MiG-25 has finally been retired in late 2013. Plans for a further overhaul for the remaining 6 aircraft had been cancelled and their tasks will be taken over by the Su-24MR. Although I'm not sure their capabilities overlap that much.

Meanwhile, the development of a new lightweight MRCA incorporating stealth technology has been authorised. There has been much criticism, as many in the MoD and the armed forces see no reason to develope an F-35 counterpart for the VVS, but according to Dmitriy Rogozin, the developer (possibly MiG) has been allowed to go ahead.
The aircraft could act as a successor to the MiG-29 and maybe the Su-25, if the PShS programme would be cancelled.

 

[Haavarla]

The Su-24MR will be a a replacement for the Mig-25's, as the Su-24MR has done this role for two decades now.

The Su-24MR will be replaced by Su-34 once the Recon pod and its software are completed. It will then combine its Escort Jammer and Recon system for its Recon mission.
Which will work well With in the AUV sphere in the near future.

 

[Feanor]

The first T-50 was just handed over to the VVS for trials.I wonder which one.

Lenta.ru:

EDIT: It's the T-50-2.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/751835.html

 

[Haavarla]

The first T-50 was just handed over to the VVS for trials.I wonder which one.

Lenta.ru:

EDIT: It's the T-50-2.

bmpd -

The T-50-2 did not have any radar afaik.. or perhaps it has one now?

Doesn't VVS require a jet With a full mission suite for their evaluations?

 

[Feanor]

This is the beginning, and it's unclear what additional work may have been done on the T-50-2. I think they will need LRIP aircraft to complete state trials,but they can begin them using an early prototype.

 

[Feanor]

It look like a MiG-31 replacement (MiG-41?) is now under development, with requirements for speeds exceeding Mach 4. The MiG-31 will be the basis for the new plane (like the MiG-25 was the basis for the MiG-31).

 

Now the generational definitions will get even stranger. Will this new interceptor be a 5th gen. fighter jet? What threats is it meant to address? Cruise missiles? LO/VLO long range strike platforms?

 

[alexkvaskov]

What a waste if true. They'd be better off investing in situational awareness. As though speed is the only (or even nearly the most important) factor in intercepting targets.

 

[colay]

It look like a MiG-31 replacement (MiG-41?) is now under development, with requirements for speeds exceeding Mach 4. The MiG-31 will be the basis for the new plane (like the MiG-25 was the basis for the MiG-31).

*

Now the generational definitions will get even stranger. Will this new interceptor be a 5th gen. fighter jet? What threats is it meant to address? Cruise missiles? LO/VLO long range strike platforms?

Perhaps the recent announcement that a SR-72 is in the offing has something to do with it. How far can the Russians push the basic design which dates back to the '60s? What kind of engine tech is it likely to employ, given that Russia is still struggling to produce a 5G engine comparable to the F119 which flew nearly 2 decades ago. It will have to do a lot better than Mach 4 though to catch the Son of Blackbird which will be a true hypersonic aircraft.

 

[Feanor]

Perhaps the recent announcement that a SR-72 is in the offing has something to do with it. How far can the Russians push the basic design which dates back to the '60s? What kind of engine tech is it likely to employ, given that Russia is still struggling to produce a 5G engine comparable to the F119 which flew nearly 2 decades ago. It will have to do a lot better than Mach 4 though to catch the Son of Blackbird which will be a true hypersonic aircraft.

I think that Russia can't develop a full hypersonic platform (Mach 4.5-6). So they settle for the next best thing. They can't intercept the SR-72, but they can intercept anything China or Europe operates with a Mach 4 interceptor. And of course it's a big step forward as far as experience in creating those kinds of aircraft.

 

[Navor86]

So according to wiki Russia plans to buy 60+16 Su30 for the Air Force and 50 Su30 for Naval Aviation. Are thos Numbers correct? Western sources so far only mention those 60 planes until 2015.

Any ideo if one could expect further orders for the Su35, or are the Russians only ordering those 48?

 

[Feanor]

So according to wiki Russia plans to buy 60+16 Su30 for the Air Force and 50 Su30 for Naval Aviation. Are thos Numbers correct? Western sources so far only mention those 60 planes until 2015.

Yes, those numbers are correct.

Any ideo if one could expect further orders for the Su35, or are the Russians only ordering those 48?

I think that further orders will come once current problems are ironed out.

 

[Klaus]

The VVS will receive 60 SU-30SM and 20 Su-30M2 in total, but there have also been rumours that a third batch of Su-30SMs could be ordered. So possibly 110
could be bought until 2020 or so.

 

[Feanor]

Some news. Apparently a replacement for the beginning trainer Yak-52, the Yak-152 is being developed under OKR Ptichka.

bmpd -

And 28 Il-38 will be upgraded by 2020. This is probably the Novella upgrade to Il-38N. As far as I know, 2 have been upgraded so far.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/777462.html

EDIT: Also, unbelievably so, the earlier announced plans of buying 300 MAI-223 Kitenok airplanes have materialized. These are tiny little propeller planes. One was recently spotted in VDV exercises in the Arctic (Kotelniy island). What they will be used for is unclear.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/777841.html

 

[Klaus]

The VVS has offivially put the Su-34 in service. All tests have been succesfully completed. Another 16 of the type will enter service this year, with at least 150 being required in total, possibly even 200.

Su-34 frontline bomber was put into service by Russian air forces - News - Russian Aviation - RUAVIATION.COM

Sounds quite strange to me as the first Su-34 was handed over several years ago. More interesting is that Bondarev explains they'll need more of them than the 129 ordered so far. There are rumours that the VVS might not buy a direct successor to the Su-25, although I'm not sure whether these are true.

 

[wittmanace]

The VVS has offivially put the Su-34 in service. All tests have been succesfully completed. Another 16 of the type will enter service this year, with at least 150 being required in total, possibly even 200.

Su-34 frontline bomber was put into service by Russian air forces - News - Russian Aviation - RUAVIATION.COM

Sounds quite strange to me as the first Su-34 was handed over several years ago. More interesting is that Bondarev explains they'll need more of them than the 129 ordered so far. There are rumours that the VVS might not buy a direct successor to the Su-25, although I'm not sure whether these are true.

When they say no direct successor, does that mean they would use an airframe from an existing family, or that it would be a new platform but with slightly different mission types etc?

 

[Feanor]

When they say no direct successor, does that mean they would use an airframe from an existing family, or that it would be a new platform but with slightly different mission types etc?

An Su-25 successor is being developed under OKR Shershen'-EP on the basis of the Su-25. I suspect the same airframe, with some changes, and new guts.

Pilot training complexes are being delivered for the Mi-28N and Ka-52. Ground support equipment for the Yak-130 and An-140.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/780538.html

 

[Klaus]

Originally Sukhoi was chosen as the developer for a new ground attack aircraft because the other contender, a Yak-130 derivative, didn't offer sufficient pilot protection. However, there are reports that Dmitri Rogozin allowed Yakovlev to carry out further design work on an upgraded Yak-130 combat version.
Others say the MoD won't be able to fund all the current projects as the economic outlook for Russia isn't that positive and the PShS programme would be among the ones most likely to be canceled as the Su-25 could also be replaced by attack helicopters and bombers. So far all of this is speculation, and the order for the Su-25UBM indicates that the ministry still favors ordering new Su-25s.