Russian Air Force News & Discussion

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The second An-148 for the VVS is nearing handover. Meanwhile unconfirmed reports continue to surface that the An-140s produced so far have been almost complete unused due to a lack of trained crews. This would not be surprising. Earlier there was a fun incident with the Il-38N (upgraded Il-38 with the Novella complex from the Tu-204P project). It was upgraded in 2011, but remained effectively grounded until very very recently, when training began (began!) for operators for the Novella complex. So it wouldn't be surprising if the An-148 meets the same fate.

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/45770/
 

Haavarla

Active Member
Unconfirmed Sources state the T-50-6 is near completion and that the T-50-7 will be the Static airframe, not the T-50-6.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Meanwhile the Ataka-VN system (Ataka ATGM for Mi-28N) and Strelets (Igla-S system for Mi-28N have just been accepted for service. Shortly prior, the Mi-28N itself was accepted for service. Given that the helo is in several units already, and has been used in operations in the North Caucus, as well as large scale international exercises, this certainly has taken some time.

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/45848/

And a pic of an Su-35S at Dzemga where they will probably be replacing the Su-27SM, the first combat wing of which is currently in Belarus (though it's unclear whether it's the Su-27SM or SM3 that's currently in Belarus).

Ðовый Су-35С на ÐвБ "Дзёмги" - Сделан¾ у наÑ
 

alexkvaskov

New Member
So the Su-27SMs are being withdrawn from that airbase in lieu of Su-35s to serve in Belarus? I'm assuming they're not being withdrawn from service. Is it true what some sources have been saying about the Su-35 that they're entering service with units in the Far East to be nearby their plant to simplify maintenance and all that? Supposedly there are still some teething problems..

Oh and here's a little something to flesh out my words:

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/712645.html
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Actually some people are saying that the current flanker wing in Belarus consists of Su-27P out of Besovets. There's speculation about whether some of the Su-27SM will go to Krymsk. I think that the units receiving the Su-35S are simply the top priority for air superiority fighters. They received the SMs first and now they're receiving the Su-35S first. It certainly says something about MinDef perceptions of the Chinese threat. As for problems, there were some with the Su-35S, but they seem to be resolved. Key word "seem".

More info and pics here.

bmpd -
 

koxinga

Well-Known Member
PAK FA stealth features patent published - IHS Jane's 360

So what does all of this adds up to? I know it is somewhat of a simplification of an inherently complex topic but what's the bottom line as far as stealth is concerned?

Details of the Sukhoi Design Bureau's work on the stealthy aspects of the T-50 PAK FA fighter aircraft emerged in late December 2013, when the company's patents were published.

According to the patent paperwork, taken together, all of the stealthy measures offer significant improvements over legacy fighter designs. The papers claim that the radar cross-section (RCS) of an Su-27 was in the order of 10-15 m 2 , with the intention being to reduce the size of the RCS in the T-50 to an "average figure of 0.1-1 m 2 ".

In common with other low observable aircraft designs, this reduction is achieved throught the use of radar-absorbing and radar-shielding materials and coatings, panel shaping (especially around the air intakes) and in the design of the junctions between moving elements, such as flaps and hatches.

In particular, the patent spells out the benefits of internal weapons carriage, s-shaped engine air ducts, (which were considered but are actually not implemented in the production PAK FA), and the use of radar blockers. It adds that the inlet guide vanes of the engines' compressors generate "a significant portion [up to 60%] of the radar cross-section of the airframe-powerplant system in the forward hemisphere" and that this is reduced by using radar-blocking devices and radar-absorbing coatings in the walls of the air ducts.

The shape of the airframe reduces the number of directions that radar signals are reflected in with the angles of sweep of the wings and the tail plane's leading and trailing edges, the edges of the air intakes and hatch covers being reduced and deflected from the aircraft's axis. Viewing the aircraft from the flank, the fuselage sides, lateral edges of the air intakes and vertical empennage are all deflected at the same angle.

Some openings and slots on the airframe's surface - such as the boundary-layer bleeds on the sides of the air intakes and the openings on the upper fuselage immediately aft of the cockpit - are covered with a thick grid, featuring a mesh of less than one quarter of the wavelength of a search radar, which reduces the reflections from these uneven surfaces. Gaps between the airframe elements are filled with conducting sealants, while the glazing of the cockpit canopy is metallised.

The surfaces of the PAK FA's own five radar arrays are also angled off from the vertical plane, helping to 'deflect' enemy radar signals. The covers of the radar arrays are selective, letting through their own signals, but blocking other frequencies. Additionally, the array compartments are edged with radar-absorbing 'curtains' to reduce possible leaks of these amplified signals.

Antennas are recessed from the surface of the skin to reduce protuberances (the vertical empennage serves as a communications antenna), while the turret of the aircraft's nose-mounted infrared search-and-track (IRST) sight is rotated backwards into a cruise position, exposing its rear hemisphere, which is covered with a radar-absorbing coating.

The release of this list of patents follows the July 2013 release of documentation covering the configuration of the fighter's integrated avionics suite.

There are currently five T-50 prototypes - the latest, T-50-5, first flew on 27 October 2013 - supporting the development programme and they are believed to have undertaken over 300 sorties to date.

In the 'Schedule of Activity for the Russian Ministry of Defence for 2013 to 2020' published in mid-2013, the PAK FA's Initial Operational Capability and the launch of full-scale series production is scheduled for 31 December 2016. The Russian National Armament Programme stipulates that 60 production PAK FA fighters will be delivered between 2016 and 2020.

The assembly of aircraft T-50-6-1 is nearing completion and three further aircraft (T-50-6-2, T-50-7 and T-50-8) are in build. One of the T-50-6 aircraft is intended for static trials and the other one is intended for flight testing.
 

colay

New Member
PAK FA stealth features patent published - IHS Jane's 360

So what does all of this adds up to? I know it is somewhat of a simplification of an inherently complex topic but what's the bottom line as far as stealth is concerned?
If published figures are to be believed, the Russians have a lot of ground to make up in the LO arena based on information sourced from the AF. Not unreasonable to speculate that even those figures were,intentionally fudged to conceal their true RCS.

F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Lightning II

According to November 2005 reports, the US Air Force states that the F-22 has the lowest RCS of any manned aircraft in the USAF inventory, with a frontal RCS of 0.0001~0.0002 m2, marble sized in frontal aspect. According to these reports, the F-35 is said to have an RCS equal to a metal golf ball, about 0.0015m2, which is about 5 to 10 times greater than the minimal frontal RCS of F/A-22. The F-35 has a lower RCS than the F-117 and is comparable to the B-2, which was half that of the older F-117
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
That kind of info is questionable to put it mildly. And unless you're a specialist, it's hard to interpret. I'd not jump to conclusions. Aside, of course, from the obvious ones.
 

the concerned

Active Member
Is the production T-50 going to look different compared to the test ones that are flying. Its that compared to the F-22 it looks too thin to be able to carry any substancial internal weapons load.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Is the production T-50 going to look different compared to the test ones that are flying. Its that compared to the F-22 it looks too thin to be able to carry any substancial internal weapons load.
Not very different. I'm not sure if the weapons bay will be enlarged. You can see the weapon bays here, though not open.

19.06.13

Meanwhile, new Mi-8 based EW platforms are in production. They have the new nose, but no rear ramp, no armor panels on the cockpit, and fewer windows. The variant is supposed to be the Mi-8MTPR-1, and they've been delivered to MD South. There are no total figures, but deliveries are expected to continue this year.

If you remember, it was helo-based EW that was actively used in the 2008 war, in particular on the Abkhazian front. A Russian commander even cited them as the reason that there were no downed aircraft on that side of the warzone.

bmpd -
 

Klaus

New Member
So not all of the Mi-8s delivered last year were AMChs? I'm quite confused about which versions are actually being bought by the MoD and which are not.

In the new Combat Aircraft magazine there is also an article concerning the future of the VVS. It says that most likely not all of the current aircraft programs will be completed, putting under doubt the future of the light MRCA, future ground attack aircraft and the An-70. Older programs could benefit from that, an order for a third batch of Su-30SMs is considered very likely, as well as follow-on contracts for the Su-34 for the time after 2020.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
No. The Russian air force buys in bulk the AMTSh and the Mi-8MTV-5. They also buy, in small numbers, other specialized variants including EW, command transport, etc.

The future ground attack aircraft will probably end up being another upgraded Su-25 variant. The production line is in place, the technology for an upgrade isn't as expensive or risky, the platform is tried and well liked, and frankly there are no KBs left to do design work. Tupolev, Yakolvev, and Ilyushin are basically shells with almost nothing left. Sukhoi is stretched thin working on the PAK-FA, Flanker upgrades (including Su-34), and a large LO UAV project of some sort, and MiG will supposedly be developing a light 5th gen using PAK-FA tech (though I wonder how much good they'll actually do), as well as continuing work on Fulcrum upgrades.

There is literally nobody left. There was a Soviet era project for a light ground-attack aircraft.

bmpd -

However it's modern day equivalent was proposed on a Yak-130 platform. That's doable, but it wouldn't be an Su-25 replacement.

The An-70 is in limbo. Like I said earlier preparation for production was started at KAPO, but then halted, and the contractors weren't even paid by the plant. They're currently in court. The real issue is that the Il-76 fills the same basic niche, is completely Russian, and is already the basis for all the specialized variants needed. The An-70's advantage is that it can take off from dirt runways, and the VDV is actively lobbying for it.
 

alexkvaskov

New Member
It's also more than reasonable to expect another Su-35 contract post 2015/6. Rather doubtful, IMHO, that Mig can develop a fifth gen platform on their own.
 

Klaus

New Member
And it's more than doubtful that there is a need for such an aircraft. IMHO the PAK FA, supported by the various Su-27 derivatives, the new MiG-29s and MiG-35s and some kind of armed UAV would be sufficient to replace the remaining soviet-era tactical warplanes. In fact for every purpose 2 or more aircraft types are being acquired, as Rogozin said this policy should be given up as soon as possible.

The MoD shouldn't forget to buy enough new transport aircraft as these would be crucial to missions in remote areas of the ODKB. Just the Il-76 won't do it, so I don't understand why the MTA project isn't making any significant progress, but I have to admit that I don't know much about the current state of the industry as such.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Ok, an update on the EW helo contract. Apparently it's for 18 birds, delivered through 2015. It's not clear if that's all, or there will be additional purchases.

alexeyvvo -

Also deliveries of the Polyana-D4M1s are continuing. MD Center just received one. I have to wonder if the deployment of the most modern automated C4I system for GBAD and aircraft integration to essentially the lowest priority MD means that the system has yet to reach FOC. Generally even fairly new systems get delivered to West MD or more commonly now South MD.

Ðа вооружение командного пункта ПВО и авиации ЦВО поÑтупила Ð¼Ð¾Ð±Ð¸Ð»ÑŒÐ½Ð°Ñ ÐСУ «ÐŸÐ¾Ð»Ñна»
http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/46026/
 
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