The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

[swerve]

Well, the RN isn't getting a new design. It's getting an off the shelf design, perhaps with minor modifications.

A basic conversion of a Type 22 should be simple: remove surplus weapons & plate over where necessary. But what does that leave you with? Even with a lot of weapons operators no longer needed, you have a ship which needs a much larger crew, a lot more maintenance, much higher fuel burn, & a lot of old electronics, gradually getting less & less reliable.

Consider, for example, engines. Two MAN diesels vs four gas turbines. Which is cheaper to run?

Start stripping out systems & fitting new & you put up initial cost, & still have much higher operating costs & crew than a new OPV. And remember, these new OPVs are almost free. Much of the money to pay for them is committed to keeping the shipyards running, whether we buy ships or not. The problematic bit is the operating cost. So where would be the advantage in getting something which costs much more to operate?

 

[StobieWan]

Can I ask what would it have took to convert old frigates like the type 22's into large patrol ships rather than design new ones.

I asked that question a bit back and the summary was pretty much as Swerve has posted - Type 22 was a big ship for it's type, has a complex propulsion system, needs a larger crew as a result.

You could strip out Seawolf, the directors, Harpoon, ditch the sonar gear etc but you'd just end up with an expensive empty box to run. A Clyde has a crew of a few dozen by comparison, and it'd chug less fuel and spares.

I quite liked the idea of getting the 22's back into operation initially but realistically, you're better off spending a bit of money on a dedicated design which would be better laid out and easier, as well as cheaper to operate.

 

[harryriedl]

I asked that question a bit back and the summary was pretty much as Swerve has posted - Type 22 was a big ship for it's type, has a complex propulsion system, needs a larger crew as a result.

You could strip out Seawolf, the directors, Harpoon, ditch the sonar gear etc but you'd just end up with an expensive empty box to run. A Clyde has a crew of a few dozen by comparison, and it'd chug less fuel and spares.

I quite liked the idea of getting the 22's back into operation initially but realistically, you're better off spending a bit of money on a dedicated design which would be better laid out and easier, as well as cheaper to operate.

Also habitability is big improvement as the OPV have supposedly some of the nicest crew quarters in the fleet(nice but the job is dull) for all ranks while with the T22 they are on the mid 70-80s standards

 

[RobWilliams]

HMS Sutherland is going to be the second Type 23 frigate to be fitted with the ARTISAN 3D radar during an 8 month overhaul.

UK: Babcock Begins HMS Sutherland Upgrade Project >> Naval Today

Among the 16 upgrades to HMS Sutherland under the programme are the installation of Artisan (Advanced Radar Target Indication Situational Awareness and Navigation) 3D Radar (improving the ship’s air-defence, anti-ship and air traffic management capabilities), and the DNA(2) Command System (central to the ship’s capability against air, surface and underwater threats).

Other upgrades the chloropac system (to improve performance in the ship’s sea water cooling systems by preventing or reducing marine growth), an upgrade to the high pressure air system pipework (to provide safe, reliable and flexible isolation when required), modification to the underwater inlets and outlets to reduce corrosion, and a galley equipment upgrade, among others.

The docking period will also include a programme of deep maintenance, including removal of rudders and stabilisers along with a programme of maintenance on the propeller shafts and associated bearings, overhaul of the helicopter handling system (PRISM), a complete overhaul or renewal of all underwater and shipside valves and numerous pumps and motors from various ship systems, replacement of laundry equipment and of the sonar bow dome, and overhaul of refrigeration and fresh water systems.

There will also be a programme of maintenance and minor upgrades on weapons systems including the 4.5 inch gun, while a full structural survey of the ship will highlight any repair work required.

HMS Iron Duke who has had ARTISAN fitted is in the transition from trials after the overhaul to work up for operations, so far no word about the performance of the radar just her gunnery

The guns of Iron Duke | Royal Navy

 

[harryriedl]

HMS Sutherland is going to be the second Type 23 frigate to be fitted with the ARTISAN 3D radar during an 8 month overhaul.

UK: Babcock Begins HMS Sutherland Upgrade Project >> Naval Today



HMS Iron Duke who has had ARTISAN fitted is in the transition from trials after the overhaul to work up for operations, so far no word about the performance of the radar just her gunnery

The guns of Iron Duke | Royal Navy

Makes sense the captain said as much at DSEI another straightforward T23 upgrade

 

[RobWilliams]

Good progress.

HMS Illustrious has begun surveying the Philippines with her helicopters, she's loaded up with 500t of supplies (1/5 of this being rice) bought rapidly over 3 days in Singapore and is also carrying 50 Marines from 42 Commando and elements of 24 Commando Royal Engineers.

In terms of aid, the supplies include jerry cans, blankets, roofing material, construction material/tools (enough to provide shelter for 8,000 families) and 12,000 jerry cans as well as other material. (Side point, RAF efforts have offloaded JCB's, 4x4s and the like)

Due to the large amounts of spare space in the hangar, that's where all the supplies are located.

https://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/9475
HMS Illustrious packed to the rafters for Philippines relief mission | Royal Navy
https://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/9455

Serious amounts of aid that'll do some good. Just to say, rest of the RFTG is still doing it's thing with US amphib group headed by USS Boxer elsewhere.

 

[StobieWan]

Some hope for the future for the Sea Skua replacement program:

French Minister of Defense Confirms Launch of ANL FASGW(H) anti-ship missile program

 

[RobWilliams]

Too bad that the ISD has slipped from 2015 to early 2018.

In other news, the LRR got fitted to HMS Queen Elizabeth a few days ago, fitting out is continuing and the painting is ongoing. The sooner they get that grey on the hull, the better.

https://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/9505

 

[153jam]

Nice to see, I have often wondered why there are no good QE images. They all appear to be at an awkward angle and there are none showing her off in all her glory (I know there will be when it's complete, but it's still nice to have for the record).

Is it due to some kind of security at the shipyard? The American's Ford class seemed to have no end of good pictures available.

 

[kev 99]

Nice to see, I have often wondered why there are no good QE images. They all appear to be at an awkward angle and there are none showing her off in all her glory (I know there will be when it's complete, but it's still nice to have for the record).

Is it due to some kind of security at the shipyard? The American's Ford class seemed to have no end of good pictures available.

I suspect it has more to do with a lack of decent positions to take photographs from and a lack of desire to rig up one with the right sort of elevation.

 

[StobieWan]

Nice to see, I have often wondered why there are no good QE images. They all appear to be at an awkward angle and there are none showing her off in all her glory (I know there will be when it's complete, but it's still nice to have for the record).

Is it due to some kind of security at the shipyard? The American's Ford class seemed to have no end of good pictures available.

Yeah "Ford" is ugly. I've been looking at picture after picture and it's the girl you date with two bags - one over her head, and the other over yours in case her bag slips

No bearing at all on the effectiveness of it (it's BEHEMOTH!) but it's ugly

 

[ASSAIL]

Yeah "Ford" is ugly. I've been looking at picture after picture and it's the girl you date with two bags - one over her head, and the other over yours in case her bag slips

No bearing at all on the effectiveness of it (it's BEHEMOTH!) but it's ugly

If Ford is ugly what have you been smoking to think that theQE is worth dating?

Function is obviously paramount for both these ships and would warm the heart of Frank Lloyd Wright.
Chris

 

[StobieWan]

If Ford is ugly what have you been smoking to think that theQE is worth dating?

Function is obviously paramount for both these ships and would warm the heart of Frank Lloyd Wright.
Chris

QE's my daughter - she'll always be beautiful to me and the man who says otherwise, that man is accursed...

 

[153jam]

I can't really think of an aircraft carrier that isn't ugly if I'm honest.. If I had to pick one it would probably be the charles de gaulle. But it would be, wouldn't it?

 

[StobieWan]

Garibaldi? Neat Italian flare to the looks I think?

 

[RobWilliams]

I'm quite fond of Cavour, personally. Bleedin' love the look of the QEC however, love the two islands idea & hopefully it works operationally how it's expected to. Would be nice if the fact that because the QEC has the S1850M too that we step up to the Mk2 . . . .

 

[StobieWan]

The two islands thing is totally unique I think - but it might catch on as more ships that size are built with GT's - the space needed for the trunking plus the requirement for separation of the GT's all drives that decision.

 

[StevoJH]

The two islands thing is totally unique I think - but it might catch on as more ships that size are built with GT's - the space needed for the trunking plus the requirement for separation of the GT's all drives that decision.

Doesn't the concept of Aircraft carriers with two islands date back to the RN's 1952 Carrier designs?

 

[StobieWan]

Doesn't the concept of Aircraft carriers with two islands date back to the RN's 1952 Carrier designs?

I don't know - if someone can steer me straight on that one, I'd be interested in reading more.

 

[harryriedl]

I don't know - if someone can steer me straight on that one, I'd be interested in reading more.

Their are some info in the massive threads in Warship1 and somewhere else which did have a something approaching a twin island set up. Their was also something similarity with the early CVA-01 designs where their was a gap between the islands which merges together to be part of the Alasken Highway with that big hole in the massive island(Age of Invincible pg.40 I think).