The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

[RobWilliams]

I could too, but hopefully the 1SL defends his corner and his own opinions. It was him after all who shot down any proposal of reducing Type 26 numbers for smaller vessels.

Still, if we had one or a pair based in the Caribbean and another in Gibraltar, that'd suit me. It'd reduce the need to deploy frigates or RFA ships there.

Couldn't really think of anywhere else that'd be appropriate other than East of Suez maybe chasing pirates off the Horn of Africa.

Hopefully these are PROPER OPV's with a hangar for a Lynx if they're chasing pirates.

 

[kev 99]

"Work on the new Offshore Patrol Vessels is due to begin next year with the first ship being delivered to the Royal Navy in 2017. The ships are expected to replace the current, smaller River Class vessels, HM Ships Tyne, Severn and Mersey which have been policing the UK’s waters since 2003, but a final decision will be taken in the next Strategic Defence and Security Review."

"These new patrol vessels will build on the proven performance of the River Class by adding a flight deck to take the Navy’s Merlin helicopters and by adding operational flexibility through extra storage capacity and accommodation.

New ships for Royal Navy secure UK shipbuilding skills | Royal Navy

Replacements for River class, this is actually quite encouraging as they are not additional hulls so in theory less of a threat to the T26.

Probably will be modified Amazonas class made for the Brazilian navy which are themselves based on the River class.

 

[StobieWan]

Strange days eh? A short run of OPV's was ruled out to keep Portsmouth ticking over, now suddenly we're replacing quite young ships with larger versions with flight decks. I doubt they'll have hangars as they're home water ships largely so just being able to Lilly pad a helo is more than enough. Plus, if you leave the hangar out of it, you can get a much bigger helicopter on deck.


Sad day for Portsmouth, but the logical decision for the yards given Govan and Scotstoun are so physically close.

 

[kev 99]

Strange days eh? A short run of OPV's was ruled out to keep Portsmouth ticking over, now suddenly we're replacing quite young ships with larger versions with flight decks. I doubt they'll have hangars as they're home water ships largely so just being able to Lilly pad a helo is more than enough. Plus, if you leave the hangar out of it, you can get a much bigger helicopter on deck.


Sad day for Portsmouth, but the logical decision for the yards given Govan and Scotstoun are so physically close.

Yes on the face on it it looks very much like we're paying BAE to build things that we don't actually need because what they are replacing isn't old enough to be replaced yet. Perhaps with a little more foresight we could have placed an order for something that we would need, like a replacement for Dilligence or Argus? I'm not sure if any work has been done on these but maybe is should have been.

 

[overlander]

These 3 new opv,s will be added on the fleet or replacements of the river class ?

 

[StobieWan]

They're replacing the Rivers as I understand it - so, new, larger, purpose built OPVs.

They're not additional ships, which gives us faint hope that they won't impact Type 26.

 

[StobieWan]

Yes on the face on it it looks very much like we're paying BAE to build things that we don't actually need because what they are replacing isn't old enough to be replaced yet. Perhaps with a little more foresight we could have placed an order for something that we would need, like a replacement for Dilligence or Argus? I'm not sure if any work has been done on these but maybe is should have been.

Well, with a bit of foresight, they'd have been cutting steel on Type 26 by now...

 

[kev 99]

These 3 new opv,s will be added on the fleet or replacements of the river class ?

As I posted above:

"Work on the new Offshore Patrol Vessels is due to begin next year with the first ship being delivered to the Royal Navy in 2017. The ships are expected to replace the current, smaller River Class vessels, HM Ships Tyne, Severn and Mersey which have been policing the UK’s waters since 2003, but a final decision will be taken in the next Strategic Defence and Security Review."

 

[kev 99]

Well, with a bit of foresight, they'd have been cutting steel on Type 26 by now...

I meant foresight in spotting that T26 wouldn't be ready to start when the carriers were finished, but yeah point taken....

But this is a little too much to ask, we both know that defence is a political football and the MOD are impervious to the need for foresight and proper planning.

 

[StobieWan]

And the reason we all thought they'd not order OPV's was..there are no OPV's in the equipment budget, that much trumpeted instrument of financial prudence.

Hrmm...gets screwier by the minute.

And Kev, yah, totally on the "whoa, where did *that* gap from from?" routine - it was predictable (scheduled in fact)

 

[StevoJH]

Unless the Rivers have been worked to death I wouldn't be surprised if they end up keeping the lot of them, at least initially.

 

[RobWilliams]

Merlin capable decks too.

Some of the wording in the RN article is off though, it talks about it being a benefit to our Overseas Territories too. Not to mention talk of them helping 'counter-terrorism, counter- piracy & anti smuggling' duties, those sort of activities by and large aren't particularly prevalent in UK waters except the last possibly. Really weird wording for ships which - given the tasks of the ship they're replacing - would be doing stuff like fisheries protection and the like.

The OPV's they made for Brazil look smart.

 

[StobieWan]

Presumably they're looking at an expanded role for the replacements - as you say, the existing ships are fishery protection/counter smuggling etc - they don't seem primarily tasked with duties outside of home waters.

I'd have thought the Rivers were in fairly good nick - weren't they leased for the first few years of their lives?

I'm intrigued to see what the replacement looks like - I'm assuming the design will be an off the peg job, probably similar to the Brazilian deal.

 

[kev 99]

Presumably they're looking at an expanded role for the replacements - as you say, the existing ships are fishery protection/counter smuggling etc - they don't seem primarily tasked with duties outside of home waters.

I'd have thought the Rivers were in fairly good nick - weren't they leased for the first few years of their lives?

I'm intrigued to see what the replacement looks like - I'm assuming the design will be an off the peg job, probably similar to the Brazilian deal.

They will almost certainly look a lot like this:

Amazonas-class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They've already built a modified one: HTMS Krabi a bit bigger with an Oto 76mm on it.

 

[StobieWan]

It'll have to be ready real soon now : )

 

[swerve]

Merlin capable decks too.

Some of the wording in the RN article is off though, it talks about it being a benefit to our Overseas Territories too. Not to mention talk of them helping 'counter-terrorism, counter- piracy & anti smuggling' duties, those sort of activities by and large aren't particularly prevalent in UK waters except the last possibly. Really weird wording for ships which - given the tasks of the ship they're replacing - would be doing stuff like fisheries protection and the like.

The OPV's they made for Brazil look smart.

Maybe that's because the RN hopes to hang on to both, at least to start with. The Rivers have many years of life left (cpmmissioned 2003), & an OPV with a flight deck could save a bigger ship from having to cover the Caribbean posting, or chasing pirates off Somalia.

It'll be interesting to see what they're like. Amazonas? Krabi? Clyde? They're all based on the Rivers, stretched to various degrees & with a flight deck.

Aha!

The ships are expected to replace the current, smaller River Class vessels, HM Ships Tyne, Severn and Mersey which have been policing the UK’s waters since 2003, but a final decision will be taken in the next Strategic Defence and Security Review.

Looks as if I'm right. The RN is hoping to keep all of 'em.

Three of these should have less basic crew than one frigate.

 

[StobieWan]

If they end up with three OPV's that can do the anti piracy/drugs taskings, perhaps assisted with that deck launched UAV that's been talked about..and then retain the existing kit..yeah, might work.

 

[Systems Adict]

IF (& at this very early juncture, it is still a BIG IF), they decide to utilise this hull form. I reckon from seeing the 2nd & 3rd T&T ships being built & launched, that it would probably be about 18 - 24 months. IMHO, the 1st & 2nd ships would probably enter service with the RN within 3 years of cutting steel.

The big discussion point will be what will the RN want ?

Would they want a 76mm Oto Gun, as it's not in their inventory & the costs associated with bringing it into the service, the support costs, the ammo, etc, would make it quite a costly move.

As an OPV, the current 30mm that is on the Brazilian OPV's would be 'adequate', just as it is for the minehunters. It make logical & logistical sense.

As for crew size, The Amazonas is 60 - 80, a Hunt or Sandown is around 45, the River's are 30 (+20), so how big would the compliment be ??

It's mooted that they want a Merlin onboard. Is that Lilly-padding, or full aviation / hanger facilities??


LOTS of questions, & at this time NO ANSWERS.

Guess we'll just have to wait like everyone else...

 

[KiwiRob]

They will almost certainly look a lot like this:

Amazonas-class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They've already built a modified one: HTMS Krabi a bit bigger with an Oto 76mm on it.

They've also built HMS Clyde, a modified River with a helideck.

 

[StobieWan]

I'd be betting on another three Clydes with little change personally. It's got to go into service sharpish, can't bring any new support burdens and mustn't look warlike (or it'd compete with type 26.