Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[Haavarla]

On a slightly different note..

After Reading this artice. Is there any update or progress on the NGJ program?

US Navy issues NGJ TD contract stop-work order to Raytheon :: Strategic Defence Intelligence

After all, it seems RAAF will be a potencial future customer for the NGJ on their SH fleet.

 

[gf0012-aust]

After all, it seems RAAF will be a potencial future customer for the NGJ on their SH fleet.

US decisions are always a factor (eg JTRS), we just deal with them when they convert to a real decision.

If there is a need to invoke capability contingency then we will invoke the plan "B" options.

eg Superhornets were first raised as plan b solutions in 2005, so we do anticipate, revise and review constantly.

 

[jack412]

Nice overview GF, at the end of the day, it is what it is.

Haavarla, I hope you read past the headline and realise that BAE are just having a dummy spit.
In my view, I don't mind if BAE or Raytheon end up with the 2 year contract, odds are they both will sub off to the same companies

 

[t68]

Well some good news on the tactical airlift front first flight next month, this project has been a long time coming bet they will be popping a few bottles of bubbly when that happens.

Australia Targets Mid-Nov. for Its First C-27J's Maiden Flight | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[t68]

With Australia and Norway developing the Joint Strike Missile for internal carriage for the F35A.Will this missile also be adopted for Poseidon P8 or will we go strictly with US weapons, being smaller and lighter than the AGM-84H/K SLAM-ER it should have no problems fitting in the weapons bay.

would could go it alone in the weapons testing if we will be the only one using it on the aircraft like we did with Hellfire on ARH would it be worthwhile?

 

[CB90]

With Australia and Norway developing the Joint Strike Missile for internal carriage for the F35A.Will this missile also be adopted for Poseidon P8 or will we go strictly with US weapons, being smaller and lighter than the AGM-84H/K SLAM-ER it should have no problems fitting in the weapons bay.

would could go it alone in the weapons testing if we will be the only one using it on the aircraft like we did with Hellfire on ARH would it be worthwhile?

Based on their history, mission of the aircraft, and where the USN is headed with P-8, I would be very surprised to see the RAAF integrate a weapons set different from what the USN is doing for P8.

 

[ADMk2]

With Australia and Norway developing the Joint Strike Missile for internal carriage for the F35A.Will this missile also be adopted for Poseidon P8 or will we go strictly with US weapons, being smaller and lighter than the AGM-84H/K SLAM-ER it should have no problems fitting in the weapons bay.

would could go it alone in the weapons testing if we will be the only one using it on the aircraft like we did with Hellfire on ARH would it be worthwhile?

Australia is not developing JSM. We provided some seed funding to test it's integration onto the internal weapons bays on F-35 only. The weapon is purely Norwegian in design, test and production. Nor are we the only ones using Hellfire on Tiger. France has chosen that option too for it's latest batch of Tigers and (I believe though happy to be corrected) to be retrofitted on it's earlier build Tigers.

To be perfectly honest I can't see us getting JSM. RAAF is apparently happy with JSOW-C1 for it's internal maritime strike capability on F-35 (though not with how quickly F-35 Block IV and JSOW-C1 capability is going to take to roll out) and is happy with it providing the maritime strike capability for Super Hornet until and post Harpoon removed from service.

RAAF has a new anti-ship missile project but I strongly suspect they will await the outcome of the USA's LRASM project rather than jump into a design early that in all likelyhood won't be integrated onto the bulk of the platforms we'll be using...

 

[t68]

Australia is not developing JSM. We provided some seed funding to test it's integration onto the internal weapons bays on F-35 only. The weapon is purely Norwegian in design, test and production. Nor are we the only ones using Hellfire on Tiger. France has chosen that option too for it's latest batch of Tigers and (I believe though happy to be corrected) to be retrofitted on it's earlier build Tigers.

To be perfectly honest I can't see us getting JSM. RAAF is apparently happy with JSOW-C1 for it's internal maritime strike capability on F-35 (though not with how quickly F-35 Block IV and JSOW-C1 capability is going to take to roll out) and is happy with it providing the maritime strike capability for Super Hornet until and post Harpoon removed from service.

RAAF has a new anti-ship missile project but I strongly suspect they will await the outcome of the USA's LRASM project rather than jump into a design early that in all likelyhood won't be integrated onto the bulk of the platforms we'll be using...

Yes was aware that the French also use the Hellfire but only after Australia did all the hard yards on it without to my knowledge anyone else involvement or $

Just find it strange that we would get involved in the integration project of the JSM and considering that the JSM has a similar role to the SLAM-ER which a directive of Harpoon just seems odd that we would contribute to that program and then not use it on Poseidon.

I am a little bit confused on the role of Poseidon in RAAF colour’s GF alluded to the role will most probably expand due to the more enhanced systems on board she will be more than a MPA and will have enhanced SIGINT role. The RAAF AP-3C Orion from all accounts performed well in the middle east in both land and maritime operations, there has been speculation for some time about that two aircraft has been modified for more of an electronic intelligence—ELINT role.

Now Boeing offered the USAF a variant of the P8 to replace the E-8 Joint STARS what sets apart the capability of the E-8 Joint STARS compared to the tracking ability of future P8 Poseidon , would it be in RAAF interest to acquire a version of P8 with the same capability of E-8 Joint Stars or would that capability also be replicated by Wedgetail-confused.

 

[ausklr76]

Yes was aware that the French also use the Hellfire but only after Australia did all the hard yards on it without to my knowledge anyone else involvement or $

Hmmm dont we get some sort of $ kick-back now?? Because we spent the dollars on development of integrating the two systems ( ARH and Hellfire) we now have licence to that and any third party that use's to has to pay us.

 

[CB90]

Just find it strange that we would get involved in the integration project of the JSM and considering that the JSM has a similar role to the SLAM-ER which a directive of Harpoon just seems odd that we would contribute to that program and then not use it on Poseidon.

It doesn't make sense because Australia would take on the entire integration bill for JSM on Poseidon. That means all software changes to the aircraft, carry clearance, weapons release clearance, and expensive live fire testing.

P-8 will be made available to AUS with USN requirement weapons already integrated into the aircraft, so AUS doesn't have to take on that bill.

Another savings comes from already having Harpoons in service, meaning you don't have to go and buy brand new missiles.

 

[gf0012-aust]

It doesn't make sense because Australia would take on the entire integration bill for JSM on Poseidon. That means all software changes to the aircraft, carry clearance, weapons release clearance, and expensive live fire testing.

P-8 will be made available to AUS with USN requirement weapons already integrated into the aircraft, so AUS doesn't have to take on that bill.

Another savings comes from already having Harpoons in service, meaning you don't have to go and buy brand new missiles.

Austraias buy in to P8 is exceptional - on the amount of money we're investing as opposed to what the USN is sharing with us is a golden mile in our favour.

We'd be mad to change the ratio .

I've had some exposure to that prog so have some insght to whats happening.

 

[hairyman]

Austraias buy in to P8 is exceptional - on the amount of money we're investing as opposed to what the USN is sharing with us is a golden mile in our favour.

We'd be mad to change the ratio .

I've had some exposure to that prog so have some insght to whats happening.

That sounds good GF. Any idea on the time frame involved? For when we are expected get some P8's, and the retirement of the Orion?

 

[gf0012-aust]

That sounds good GF. Any idea on the time frame involved? For when we are expected get some P8's, and the retirement of the Orion?

last time I got the invite it was circa 2017

 

[John Newman]

Talking of the P-8's (and Triton too), I read an article about the Triton in Australian Aviation recently, where the Chief of Air Force, Geoff Brown, was talking about re-assessing the planned force mix of both airframes.

As we know the current plan is for 8 P-8A's and 7 Tritons (if as appears likely it will be the type chosen), he was saying that 8 P-8's would leave the RAAF 'a little shy of what we would want'.

In the article he was talking about the USN having an approx 'two to one' ratio between P-8 and Triton and that type of ratio would work better for the RAAF too.

He went on to say, 'so a 12 to six (P-8 to Triton) mix may be a bit better than an eight to seven mix'.

It will be interesting to see if that is how it eventually works out, four more P-8s and one less Triton.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Talking of the P-8's (and Triton too), I read an article about the Triton in Australian Aviation recently, where the Chief of Air Force, Geoff Brown, was talking about re-assessing the planned force mix of both airframes.

As we know the current plan is for 8 P-8A's and 7 Tritons (if as appears likely it will be the type chosen), he was saying that 8 P-8's would leave the RAAF 'a little shy of what we would want'.

In the article he was talking about the USN having an approx 'two to one' ratio between P-8 and Triton and that type of ratio would work better for the RAAF too.

He went on to say, 'so a 12 to six (P-8 to Triton) mix may be a bit better than an eight to seven mix'.

It will be interesting to see if that is how it eventually works out, four more P-8s and one less Triton.

without going into detail (as its shaky ground subject matter) you have to consider how many Orions we curr have up in the air at any max level

then you have to consider that the P8's are an order of magnitude better than the Orions - and depending on mission set - they're far more capable than the Wedgetails (although the wedgie crews would take unbrage at that)

as we're working closely with USN on P8's I imagine that we'll sort things out ahead of the delivery game

 

[John Newman]

without going into detail (as its shaky ground subject matter) you have to consider how many Orions we curr have up in the air at any max level

then you have to consider that the P8's are an order of magnitude better than the Orions - and depending on mission set - they're far more capable than the Wedgetails (although the wedgie crews would take unbrage at that)

as we're working closely with USN on P8's I imagine that we'll sort things out ahead of the delivery game

I agree with what you are saying.

It was just interesting that the quotes didn't appear to be just something made up by a journo they were actually attributed to the Chief of Air Force, Geoff Brown. I had read a little while ago (think it was in the lead up to the Election) that there was talk of maybe a 'few' more P-8s, but not how many, so it was interesting to see the number 12 mentioned.

And talking about how many Orion's currently in the air, in the article Brown was also quoted as saying "Right now I know we've got at least seven P-3's out there most days doing various tasks".

 

[gf0012-aust]

And talking about how many Orion's currently in the air, in the article Brown was also quoted as saying "Right now I know we've got at least seven P-3's out there most days doing various tasks".

well, I can tell you that the P8 numbers weren't based on that.....

 

[ADMk2]

Yes was aware that the French also use the Hellfire but only after Australia did all the hard yards on it without to my knowledge anyone else involvement or $

Just find it strange that we would get involved in the integration project of the JSM and considering that the JSM has a similar role to the SLAM-ER which a directive of Harpoon just seems odd that we would contribute to that program and then not use it on Poseidon.

I am a little bit confused on the role of Poseidon in RAAF colour’s GF alluded to the role will most probably expand due to the more enhanced systems on board she will be more than a MPA and will have enhanced SIGINT role. The RAAF AP-3C Orion from all accounts performed well in the middle east in both land and maritime operations, there has been speculation for some time about that two aircraft has been modified for more of an electronic intelligence—ELINT role.

Now Boeing offered the USAF a variant of the P8 to replace the E-8 Joint STARS what sets apart the capability of the E-8 Joint STARS compared to the tracking ability of future P8 Poseidon , would it be in RAAF interest to acquire a version of P8 with the same capability of E-8 Joint Stars or would that capability also be replicated by Wedgetail-confused.

JSM can fit into the internal bays of an F-35, a SLAM-ER can't...

At present JSM is the only anti-ship MISSILE that will fit into those bays, however since maritime strike capability was added to JSOW-C in the new C1 variant which RAAF has bought for it's Super Hornet capability and will be carried internally on Block IV variants of RAAF F-35's and given RAAF and RAN are undoubtedly watching the outcome of the LRASM project, I suspect the Australian interest in JSM has waned a lot.

JSOW-C1 and Harpoon II can carry us through to 2025 or so and by then new ASM options will certainly be available.

JSM was no doubt attractive when it appeared the only game in town. Is it so attractive when compared to a combination of a JASSM-ER based ASM for external aircraft carriage and shipboard usage and JSOW-C1+ for internal F-35 carriage?

Especially if the USN and USAF go down the LRASM/JSOW path as they appear headed? I'm not so sure...

 

[rossfrb_1]

Joint Standoff Weapon C-1 Demonstrates Networks with E-2D Aircraft | Missiles & Bombs News at DefenceTalk

Was wondering what utility if any this could have for the ADF?

The US concept has carrier launched F-18E/F + JSOW C1 + E-2D for long range attack.

RAAF could have F-18F + JSOW C1 + E7 Wedgetail (or even P8 in the future) launching from land bases .
Unsure if Wedgetail has (or could easily get) the sensor fit to do what the E-2D does in this chain.

Trying to think of a scenario where such a combination would be useful for ADF to deploy.
I guess a high altitude launch would allow the shorter ranged F-18F to bugger off back to base whilst the E7 could guide from an extended distance.

Thoughts anyone?

rb

 

[swerve]

JSM can fit into the internal bays of an F-35, a SLAM-ER can't...

At present JSM is the only anti-ship MISSILE that will fit into those bays, ....

Do you have the dimensions? It's not quite the same as NSM, is it?

I presume Marte is precluded by the wings, even folded.