Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[John Newman]

What are the options should the worst case scenario occur and the F-35 is cancelled? More Shortnets? Typhoon? Gripen? What other options are there....?:eek

Pentagon considers canceling F-35 program | Aviation & Air Force News at DefenceTalk

Not that I think it's going to happen, but for the sake of the 'what if', I'd think it would be more Super Hornets, at least in the medium term.

We've got 24 near new F's in service and added to that will be the 12 Growlers in the coming few years, being in service now and a known entity would certainly make more Super Hornets the obvious choice and they will still be in USN service till around 2030 too.

And that would allow us time to see what the US military would do, as far as looking for a replacement program, if they were put in that situation too.

Can't see it happening, but if it did, more Super Hornets!

 

[ngatimozart]

What are the options should the worst case scenario occur and the F-35 is cancelled? More Shortnets? Typhoon? Gripen? What other options are there....?:eek

Pentagon considers canceling F-35 program | Aviation & Air Force News at DefenceTalk

I note the story source is Novosti (Russia) and IHS Janes, Defence News and other reputable agencies haven't run the story so I have some doubts about its veracity. If this was the case we'd hear LM squealing from here and there are a whole lot of congress critters who'd override the Pentagon and keep the program running because of lobbying and politics. I would think that it would also leave the USG & LM liable for claims from the participating countries for the monies that they have invested. It'd be in the hundreds of billions.

 

[StobieWan]

From reading the article, I get the impression that what's happened is a whole range of options have been served up with implications costed out - in other words, a whole raft of things that could be dropped, without any real intention that they all be acted upon. Canning F35 would be a huge undertaking.

 

[CB90]

From reading the article, I get the impression that what's happened is a whole range of options have been served up with implications costed out - in other words, a whole raft of things that could be dropped, without any real intention that they all be acted upon. Canning F35 would be a huge undertaking.

Yeah this stuff happens all the time in DOD.

You study the possible consequences of some really off the wall suggestions...just so you can prove it really is a bad idea. Or it turns out it's actually a really good idea, and maybe what we should be doing instead.

 

[hairyman]

If it were to happen I would not mind a buy of a squadron or two of Silent Eagles

 

[StobieWan]

They'd cost more than F35A though. The base price of the existing F15 in current production runs is more than the projected price of FRP A's. That plus the SE is (so far) powerpointware.

 

[ADMk2]

More Super Hornets and more Growlers is the most likely option under such circumstances.

I'd suggest RAAF would then be looking to put JASSM on the Super Hornet and would probably have a very close look at Boeing's concept to put Meteor onto the Super Hornet too.

I imagine our concept of air combat operations would then be looking towards conducting our operations predominantly at extended ranges, even moreso than currently envisaged.

I imagine RAN would also be a major beneficiary with a much enhanced long ranged land attack capability, planned...

 

[Abraham Gubler]

More Super Hornets and more Growlers is the most likely option under such circumstances.

That would most likely be the immediate response. But if F-35 was to be cancelled then the US services would instantly try and establish new project(s) to replace it. This could be leveraging existing airframes (Ultra Hornet, Super Eagle) or newer projects using F-35 technology on a lower cost platform.

These solutions would be available to the RAAF to fill the void of F-35 cancellation.

I imagine RAN would also be a major beneficiary with a much enhanced long ranged land attack capability, planned...

Except the RAN has major problems in deploying this kind of capability. Ie a lack of shooters. The TLAM capability for the surface fleet is very much about supressing airbases of enemy anti naval strike aircraft. But even TLAM, a very good missile, against an air defence environment is at a ratio of about four missiles to a single F-35 air strike. And is of course only capable of delivering a single salvo per weapon.

 

[hauritz]

In the extraordinarily unlikely event of the F-35 being cancelled I would think that the RAAF would almost certainly go for more superhornets.

I could imagine the champagne corks popping over at Boeing if something like that were to happen. They would make an absolute killing selling superhornets and F-15s to fill the void left by the F-35.

 

[rand0m]

What weaponry are the RAAF planning on using with F-35 for ground & maritime targets? JASSM, JASSM-ER, JSOW, JSOW-ER, JSM? Is the ability to 'strike Jakarta' still relevant requirement in today's thinking? (I've tried to word that as lightly as possible).

 

[ngatimozart]

Is the ability to 'strike Jakarta' still relevant requirement in today's thinking? (I've tried to word that as lightly as possible).

Even though relations are warm at the moment it has been known for states to fall out and so I would be of the opinion that prudent planners would allow for all possibilities.

 

[ADMk2]

Except the RAN has major problems in deploying this kind of capability. Ie a lack of shooters. The TLAM capability for the surface fleet is very much about supressing airbases of enemy anti naval strike aircraft. But even TLAM, a very good missile, against an air defence environment is at a ratio of about four missiles to a single F-35 air strike. And is of course only capable of delivering a single salvo per weapon.

True, however that will change over time, with the new Sub, future frigate, "possible" 4th AWD (dare I suggest it?) etc and combined with an extremely long range standoff weapon (JASSM-ER presumably) on the replacement fighter fleet and (possibly) the same weapon on the P-8A, we'd have a respectable long range strike capability.

F-35 would of course be better, but we're in red herring territory here...

 

[ADMk2]

What weaponry are the RAAF planning on using with F-35 for ground & maritime targets? JASSM, JASSM-ER, JSOW, JSOW-ER, JSM? Is the ability to 'strike Jakarta' still relevant requirement in today's thinking? (I've tried to word that as lightly as possible).

JDAM, Laser JDAM, JDAM-ER, Paveway II, Small Diameter Bomb I/II and AGM-154C / C1 JSOW have all been mentioned publicly so far, though there seems a bit of overlap in there...

RAAF have also mentioned a dedicated anti-ship missile in recent literature in addition to JSOW-C1 but the timeframe for that weapon (whether JSM, LRASM or some other offering) will be highly dependant on others, their timelines and development priorities...

 

[ADMk2]

Anyone see any future RAAF interest in major planned Super Hornet upgrades being tested at the moment, seeing as though we are apparently keeping our Shornets longer term?

A few high-res pics have been released by Boeing just recently...

 

[gf0012-aust]

Anyone see any future RAAF interest in major planned Super Hornet upgrades being tested at the moment, seeing as though we are apparently keeping our Shornets longer term?

Nothing has come out of BACC, but its early days considering that we're on the verge of a change of Govt

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Nothing has come out of BACC, but its early days considering that we're on the verge of a change of Govt

The US Navy has the Super Hornet upgrade Flight Plan and the RAAF can pick and chose from nil to all or these upgrades when or never it wants them.

 

[t68]

Nothing has come out of BACC, but its early days considering that we're on the verge of a change of Govt

Take it with that comment we can expect another round of super hornets under the christmas tree this year if the coalition get in?

 

[Abraham Gubler]

The media brief on the Advanced Super Hornet is uploaded to the web here:

http://www.aereo.jor.br/wp-content/uploads//2013/08/Advanced-Super-Hornet-Media-Brief.pdf

Definitely some interesting stuff there.

 

[ADMk2]

Nothing has come out of BACC, but its early days considering that we're on the verge of a change of Govt

I have a vague recollection of an intended MLU for the fleet at some future date, but as I can't find my reference could just be my addled brain...

Is there any chance of JASSM going onto Super Hornet in RAAF service do we think, given it won't be on JSF until Block IV/V at the earliest?

 

[ADMk2]

Take it with that comment we can expect another round of super hornets under the christmas tree this year if the coalition get in?

I wouldn't imagine so. JSF seems to be going along quite smoothly nowadays. It remains RAAF's preferred platform...