The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter overlander
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That reminds me of when I visited Dragon hearing about how much of the navigation course seem to have been culled from the USN (possibly prompting the last few ships running aground)
Although It's not as though as ships running aground is a problem restricted to the US, don't like to remind everyone about the time when HMS Astute ran aground off the Isle of Skye in 2010.
Anyway, the first RN sailor attached to the USN has qualified as an aircraft handler aboard the USS Dwight D Eisenhower
First Royal Navy sailor qualifies to move aircraft on US carrier | Royal Navy
There was even - a while back - articles about 2 RN meteorologists being trained to weather forecast for carrier operations and how the ships weapons/sensors will behave in the weather.
One interesting point was how the different navies complete weather reports; the USN completes 72 hour reports for 50nm from the ship whereas the RN completes 12 hour reports 100nm from the ship.
From the Paris air show, the MOD has signed a deal with Boeing to supply the Scan Eagle UAS for "a small number of Royal Navy warships and Royal Fleet Auxiliary support vessels" as a UOR.
That'll basically be Type 23 frigates (served for trials of the system a few years ago) and the Bay class LSDs i'd imagine. Not bad. Contract value unknown.
http://www.defensenews.com/article/...80010/British-MoD-Inks-Deal-Boeing-ScanEagles
Also from the Paris air show, Lockheed Martin are in talks with 3 nations (The UK, Canada and a Nordic nation) about the SC-130J MPA.
http://www.defensenews.com/article/...019/Lockheed-Talks-3-Countries-Sell-Sea-Hercs
Anyway, the first RN sailor attached to the USN has qualified as an aircraft handler aboard the USS Dwight D Eisenhower
First Royal Navy sailor qualifies to move aircraft on US carrier | Royal Navy
The article includes the numbers and locations of guys attached to the USN
- 4 aircraft handlers on the USS Dwight D Eisenhower
- 3 sailors attached to USS Kearsage (Wasp class LHD) including at least 1 aircraft handler
- 8 more to join USS Harry S Truman in July for aircraft handling, maintenance and weapon handling
There was even - a while back - articles about 2 RN meteorologists being trained to weather forecast for carrier operations and how the ships weapons/sensors will behave in the weather.
One interesting point was how the different navies complete weather reports; the USN completes 72 hour reports for 50nm from the ship whereas the RN completes 12 hour reports 100nm from the ship.
From the Paris air show, the MOD has signed a deal with Boeing to supply the Scan Eagle UAS for "a small number of Royal Navy warships and Royal Fleet Auxiliary support vessels" as a UOR.
That'll basically be Type 23 frigates (served for trials of the system a few years ago) and the Bay class LSDs i'd imagine. Not bad. Contract value unknown.
http://www.defensenews.com/article/...80010/British-MoD-Inks-Deal-Boeing-ScanEagles
Also from the Paris air show, Lockheed Martin are in talks with 3 nations (The UK, Canada and a Nordic nation) about the SC-130J MPA.
Glad to see progress is being made on the MPA front, but I can't help but feel i'd rather prefer to hear about the UK talking Boeing about the P-8.
http://www.defensenews.com/article/...019/Lockheed-Talks-3-Countries-Sell-Sea-Hercs
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I have a book on strange little stories from WW2 and it had one about how back during the Pacific campaign the RN sailors poked a lot of fun at their American counterparts about them not having a rum ration. However the Americans had something better on their big decks for that climate. Ice cream machines.
: On my second deployment we was working with STANFORMED and HMS Portland was part of the group. The CO of the Portland was kind enough to send my CO a couple cases of beer. My CO then decided to have our store keepers put them randomly in our coke machines.
Hahah..I like it
I was chatting to an ex RAF radar guy who'd been on Cyprus around the time the the rum ration got stopped (some piffling objection about combining nuclear weapons and alcohol, I have no clear understanding of their case..) Basically, he said the average matelot seemed to think it was a cue to try and make up for lost time and you'd have sailors ordering "a pint of gin" or whatever - result, a long string of utterly bollocksed junior ratings, scattered across the island.
Apparently the MP's just ended up running an informal taxi service through the night.
Mind, same year or near enough, some RAF techies nicked an inert Blue Steel test article, drove it to Hyde park, dug a hole overnight and shoved it in there, with a small smoke charge trickling out the back so it looked like the thing had *landed* there. Tail fins sticking out into the air, and *everything*...
Those were more interesting times
I was chatting to an ex RAF radar guy who'd been on Cyprus around the time the the rum ration got stopped (some piffling objection about combining nuclear weapons and alcohol, I have no clear understanding of their case..) Basically, he said the average matelot seemed to think it was a cue to try and make up for lost time and you'd have sailors ordering "a pint of gin" or whatever - result, a long string of utterly bollocksed junior ratings, scattered across the island.
Apparently the MP's just ended up running an informal taxi service through the night.
Mind, same year or near enough, some RAF techies nicked an inert Blue Steel test article, drove it to Hyde park, dug a hole overnight and shoved it in there, with a small smoke charge trickling out the back so it looked like the thing had *landed* there. Tail fins sticking out into the air, and *everything*...
Those were more interesting times
The Scan Eagle is very interesting indeed potentially having UAV's as part of the establishment of most ships at sea in theory giving much better SA compared with just the helo
Very cool.
My unit operated Puma UAVs off one of the Bay class ships for the RN, and they were pretty excited by what even that did to increase SA of the surface picture.
Must have sold (or were the machines free?) a lot of coke for a while.I have a book on strange little stories from WW2 and it had one about how back during the Pacific campaign the RN sailors poked a lot of fun at their American counterparts about them not having a rum ration. However the Americans had something better on their big decks for that climate. Ice cream machines.
On my second deployment we was working with STANFORMED and HMS Portland was part of the group. The CO of the Portland was kind enough to send my CO a couple cases of beer. My CO then decided to have our store keepers put them randomly in our coke machines.
One of my cousins was in the RN until about ten years ago, when he retired as a CPO. He described all sorts of shenanigans in the Persian Gulf in 1990-91, to get cases of beer aboard USN ships. In exchange for wads of dollars, of course.
Good news about Dragon which i've only just heard about, we all know that the Type 45 can fit 2 Lynx helicopters in the hangar and it turns out HMS Dragon - when she deployed to the Gulf - has conducted operations with a pair of Lynx helicopters embarked.
It's the first such deployment to be carried out, which is excellent. For a ship as specialised as the Type 45 i'd say it makes sense that they deploy with the more multipurpose helicopter we've got.
HMS Dragon's two Lynx helicopters - YouTube
EDIT: ScanEagle contract worth £30million, no info on numbers as of yet.
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-an...yal-Navy-gets-Eagle-eyes#.UcMEUcDf8hY.twitter
Interesting declaration that for the next 10 years, ISR will be the central investment. Hope that means MPA at some point.
It's the first such deployment to be carried out, which is excellent. For a ship as specialised as the Type 45 i'd say it makes sense that they deploy with the more multipurpose helicopter we've got.
HMS Dragon's two Lynx helicopters - YouTube
Quite an interesting scenario, Dragon picking up Monmouths Lynx in theatre.
EDIT: ScanEagle contract worth £30million, no info on numbers as of yet.
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-an...yal-Navy-gets-Eagle-eyes#.UcMEUcDf8hY.twitter
Interesting declaration that for the next 10 years, ISR will be the central investment. Hope that means MPA at some point.
YES & NO...
YES, she's the 1st to deploy in the Gulf with x2 Helo's.
NO, Dauntless was the 1st to deploy with x2 Helo's, when she did her first big trip South, in late 2010 / early 2011.
THAT's where the original pic came from......
SA
Well, that's how the RN have sold it. I suspect there could be some typical definition problems from the RN.
IIRC Dauntless' deployment was to the US to do some wargames, Ex FRUKUS 2011 I think because it was a French, Russian, British and US event. that's where the picture comes from.
That's the rub, that deployment was more about evaluating the procedures and concept of operating two helicopters on the class. "Writing the rulebook" was a phrase I vaguely remember being thrown around at the time.
What I was talking about about Dragon though was it's the first deployment where the aircraft had been conducting proper operations rather than trials.
IIRC Dauntless' deployment was to the US to do some wargames, Ex FRUKUS 2011 I think because it was a French, Russian, British and US event. that's where the picture comes from.
That's the rub, that deployment was more about evaluating the procedures and concept of operating two helicopters on the class. "Writing the rulebook" was a phrase I vaguely remember being thrown around at the time.
What I was talking about about Dragon though was it's the first deployment where the aircraft had been conducting proper operations rather than trials.
They *can* be but the general indication is that they're going to be more focussed on the general purpose/light attack/light utility role - if they were getting serious about ASW, they'd embark a single Merlin.
They can carry dipping sonar and Stingray however - and I dare say two helos on tap instead of one would be useful at times, even if the Merlin has better kit and more crew.
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
Merlin doesn't have an Air to Surface missile currently integrated does it? Plus since the T45 doesn't have a towed array and has the space for a pair of Lynx, wouldn't the pair give better availability (at shorter range and carrying capacity) then a single Merlin would?
Nope, Merlin doesn't have ASMs purely because the money for integration hasn't been put up. So right now there is a clear divide in the FAA; if you want a GP helo with surface attack capability you want the Lynx, if you want an ASW hunter then you want a Merlin.
side point - It doesn't have a towed array, but it has a hull mounted sonar but this is really for detecting mines rather than submarines.
But i'd rather see regular Wildcat on the Type 45s, as it is in terms of high end warfare they're good for one thing; AAW. So they need the GP qualities of the Wildcat moreso than the specialities of the Merlin HM2.
Plus, they're not really sub hunting platforms. We'd be better off basing the Merlins on the flat decks when they're around plus the Type 23's.
Plus I'm not even sure the UK is even buying any ASW kit to go in them anyway, that'd be money better spent elsewhere i'd say.
side point - It doesn't have a towed array, but it has a hull mounted sonar but this is really for detecting mines rather than submarines.
But i'd rather see regular Wildcat on the Type 45s, as it is in terms of high end warfare they're good for one thing; AAW. So they need the GP qualities of the Wildcat moreso than the specialities of the Merlin HM2.
Plus, they're not really sub hunting platforms. We'd be better off basing the Merlins on the flat decks when they're around plus the Type 23's.
Plus I'm not even sure the UK is even buying any ASW kit to go in them anyway, that'd be money better spent elsewhere i'd say.
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
Would the gear from the current Lynx be compatible or would the airframes and electronics be too different do you think?
I think a pair of Wildcats is a perfect match for an air warfare destroyer, gives a decent supplemental ASuW capability, certainly suitable for the type of surface threats the Type 45 is likely to have to deal with. Particularly when the FASGW variants are in service, I'm very eager to see how the heavy version turns out. The Sea Skua has been a really nice little missile during its service life, a similarly sized weapon with modern warhead, motor and guidance systems should be an excellent performer.
Ah, anti-ship missiles, just can't get enough of them...
Ah, anti-ship missiles, just can't get enough of them...
I think the Dutch have used the Lynx (SH-14D) with dipping sonar, so it can be done. But the Wildcat would be the better platform for such an endeavour.
I'm gunna copy'n'paste a response from STURM in the South Korean navy thread - who're buying Wildcats with dipping soner - about those types of parameters.
The Wildcat - I think - is pretty similar in size to the current Lynx but has more powerful engines fitted. The current Lynx engines produce some 2,270shp whereas the Wildcat produces 2,722hp this is probably more driven by the larger power requirements of the Wildcat. It's got a larger payload capacity for a larger operational radius than the current Lynx making it more ideal than the current Lynx if you're going to cram in the neccesary equipment to conduct ASW ops.
But even so, it would still be better to buy a larger helicopter for that type of thing i'd imagine.
EDIT: Aft island for HMS Queen Elizabeth has just passed under the Forth bridges and is due to be lifted onto the carrier some time next week. After that we've only got 3 sponson lifts, the 2 aircraft lifts and things like the radars & flyco station to do and the ship will be all together then due to be structurally complete in early 2014 and be floated out. Then it's the construction of HMS Prince of Wales.
http://www.aircraftcarrieralliance....weekly-comms/weekly-bulletin-21-june-2013.pdf
In theory what I've heard and seen the possibility of 1 Merlin 1 Wildcat is possible if tight in the hanger their is still the extra space despite the width of the Merlin