The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

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colay

New Member
AFAIK, the supersonic LRASM-B has indeed been cancelled. LRASM-A, based on the JASSM-ER, is continuing development which is expected to be completed in the 2015 timeframe.

My understanding is that, assuming LRASM-A meets DARPA expectations, it will then be up to the AF and Navy to decide if they want to adopt the new missile.

Based on specs, LRASM-A would appear to offer a more powerful, longer-range weapon better able to deal with A2/AD environments.
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=LvHlW1h_0XQ&desktop_uri=/watch?v=LvHlW1h_0XQ
 
B

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
Personally I'm a lot more interested in LRASM and NSM than Perseus at this point, but technology is going to change so much in the intervening years between now and 2030 that I don't know how much can be gleaned by speculating as to capabilities of that era for the moment. I understand the timeframe is relevant for the Type 26, though. For the RN's purposes if a heavy surface launched anti-ship capability is required in the near future, I'd be curious to see if NSM is an option. It appears to be about the right size to not require too much more real estate and weight than current subsonic sea skimmers, and I think it would complement FASGW-H (another system I'm excited to see get into service) quite well.

Perseus sounds like a good idea and when I consider the advances in sensors, processing, artificial intelligence and so on that are likely to occur by 2030, I expect the performance of missiles of that era will be absolutely mind boggling compared to what we've seen thus far. But it is a very long way off.

Rob, if you're interested in supersonic anti-ship missiles you might also want to see if you can dig up anything on the Hsiung Feng III, which is a Taiwanese-developed rocket-ramjet AShM with a publicly disclosed speed in the region of mach 2. I haven't seen any information to indicate it's a pure sea skimmer, but my understanding is that it descends to a relatively low altitude for the terminal phase of its flight. The Taiwanese have done an interesting job of developing their own anti-ship missiles, with a mix of subsonic sea skimmers and supersonic weapons. They deploy them as such too, using both types to complement one another, if I'm not mistaken. It's difficult to find much concrete information on these weapons but you might be interested in having a hunt around. Personally I find the concept of pairing a low-signature subsonic weapon with a relatively high-signature supersonic weapon to create a greater overall anti-ship capability quite intriguing.
 
RobWilliams

RobWilliams

Super Moderator
Staff member
IMO I don't think it's wise to be too energy dependent on another country anyway, i'm more of a nuclear energy proponent, the trouble with the vocal minority of this country is they have the NIMBY attitude.

But if we want to continue to maintain these levels from the ME then we ourselves need the assets to keep the routes open.
 
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StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
swerve said:
Cue greatly reduced opposition to fracking, & exploitation of domestic shale gas.
Click to expand...

I suspect that'll happen anyway - the reserves being quoted are eye poppingly huge - if the government was smart and granted licenses conditional on a chunk of the profits being ploughed back into renewables with tax breaks as incentives then we could use those reserves to fix our future energy needs as well as solving our energy dependence on Russia and the Middle East at the same time.
 
C

colay

New Member
Here's some info I came across on LRASM's range and warhead
specs. 200 nmi range would be around 2X Harpoon, right?
Apparently, the sensors suite testing is also progressing favorably in addition to successful punch-thru testing simulating launch from a VLS . Looks to be a fair bet that they meet their 2015 development deadline.

AirSea Battle Weapon?

AirSea Battle Weapon?

Lockheed Martin hopes to get on contract with the Navy in 2014 for a derivative of its Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile and JASSM-Extended Range system called the Long-Range Anti-Ship Missile, according to Dick Tate, the company's program manager for the new weapon. Developed as a DARPA project, LRASM has "the same mold line" and thus about the same stealth as the JASSM-ER, but replaces some of that weapon's internal fuel with avionics that permit man-in-the-loop "multimode" terminal guidance, said Tate last week at AFA's Air Warfare Symposium in Orlando, Fla. The sensors are designed to give the weapon capability against moving sea targets or mobile land targets. The JASSM-ER can go more than 500 miles, but LRASM would have close to the baseline JASSM's range of more than 200 miles, said Tate. LRASM has a 1000-pound warhead, is meant for launch from aircraft like F/A-18E/Fs or B-1Bs, or from shipboard vertical launch system tubes with an ASROC rocket boosting it. Lockheed Martin said it successfully tested the system pushing through a VLS tube cover and the nose-mounted apertures were unaffected. The company also has conducted captive carriage flight testing of the LRASM sensor suite. The weapon would have about 85 percent commonality with JASSM-ER and would be built on the same production line in Alabama, according to the company.

—John A. Tirpak

2/26/2013
 
F

Fast Mover

New Member
Thank you for that interesting info colay.

I think the weapon sounds promising, both in terms of it's capability and flexibility as well as the progress of the development programme, which so far seems to be bucking the typical weapon development trend of delays/problems/cost rises - lets hope it continues, and that the RN get some one day!

I realise I have banged on about anti-ship missiles; there are of course a multitude of important programmes for the RN now and in the medium term of which a new ASM is arguably well down the list. My desire is simply to see the impressive new ships coming on line in the next few years being given the best capabilities, so as to realise fully the potential of the ships the RN have invested so much in.

Whilst numbers have sadly declined well below levels that we all would like to see, at least the new kit that the RN is being equipped with is - in the context of navies worldwide - excellent. Yes there are gaps (T45 being somewhat 'austere' on service entry in a multirole context, CEC, AEW gap in the future, no organic f/w airpower until F35 etc) and there isn't much scope to sustain combat losses, god forbid - but what the RN have and are getting are assets (T45, Astute, CVF, T26) that I think any navy would be pleased to have in their fleet.

Lets hope that one or two of the excellent points made by posters on this forum become reality one day!
 
RobWilliams

RobWilliams

Super Moderator
Staff member
Indeed, the weapon seems perfectly capable.

Unfortunately there's rumours of cuts for the defence budget again this year (which Hammond is fighting against, it should be noted, as well as fighting for bringing both carriers into service) which in the most optimistic thinking could result in the £8billion headroom over the next decade being eroded away.

I could sit here and list things which i'd say the RN *needs* (CEC & Astute 8 for starters), but the lack of progress on the MARS SSS is a bit concerning (Fort Rosalie + Fort Austin have been in service for 34 and 35 years respectively this year!), as is progress on replacing RFA Argus & RFA Diligence.

RFA Argus can soldier on until 2020 according to a BBC article about her £12mn refit in '07, this is presumably the same as Diligence as she had a £16mn overhaul in late '07 too.

Fort Victoria is more modern, ~20 years service. The current assumption is that MARS SSS will consist of 3 vessels, originally there was a plan for 2 SSS and 3 Joint Sea Based Logisitic ships (the latter was to supply troops ashore) and the latter has since been cancelled so people believe that the number of SSS would increase to 3 to balance the drop to a degree. If this happens, we will be in a position where we will have - for a while - a larger capability than we currently have (3 SSS +Fort Victoria), similar to the situation with the Tide class tankers (4 Tides + 2 Waves) where the existing vessels still have use but will ultimately be gone leaving the planned ships.

The RFA makes the RN a true blue water navy, it might be less glamourous as the warships, but they are such a force multiplier. So hopefully SDSR 2015 will reveal what the plan is.
 
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Indigo

New Member
A quick update on QEC, the aft tower of QE was loaded onto the barge yesterday ready for transport to Rosyth at the start of next week.

This is the last major block of the QE 'jigsaw' and once it's fitted the ship will be almost finished in appearance.
 
RobWilliams

RobWilliams

Super Moderator
Staff member
Meh, IMO she'll be looking grand when more sponsons are added to her bow, we know she's a wide ship and at the moment she's not looking like it.

Just think, in ~9/10 months she'll be floated out of the dock and having the rest of her internals installed and HMS Prince of Wales will be there being put together. When she comes into service, the first of our new tankers will be coming into service too.

ASaC helos have been in action in France, participating with a French CAG during their workup to operational status who will then join Charles de Gaulle and being ready to deploy.

Entente-cordiale reaches a new high level | Royal Navy

Presumably when the SKASaC leaves service in 2016, the MOD will put into operationa another one of the dispersal programs where the operators get placed with allied navy (i.e USN and MN + RAF E-3 squadrons maybe?) AEW squadrons to keep the skills alive as Crowsnest won't be able to put up a capability until 2020 at the earliest.

Still, good to hear about the baggers getting experience directing fast jets conducting naval operations. The aircraft have done plenty of ops over Afghanistan (presumably a bit of figher control experience there) and onboard HMS Illustrious* directing helo operations at sea, but fixed wing operations at sea is what we will need.

HMS Duncan - the last of 6 Type 45 destroyers - has conducted a brief period of trials and assessment, she's due to conduct more intense sea trials later in the year.

HMS Duncan is put through her paces for the first time | Royal Navy

*HMS Illustrious is currently conducting FOST taskings and will enter a maintenance period before deploying to the Med with the RFTG for Cougar 13. Hopefully this year they'll have an AWD - probably Diamond - in attendance and maybe some organic tanker capability.
 
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1805

New Member
Just watched Trooping the Colour, biggest RAF contribution I have ever seen. They really know how to do PR, they almost overshadowed the Guards!
 
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RobWilliams

RobWilliams

Super Moderator
Staff member
Aft island for QE is on her way to Rosyth, minus the flyco station

https://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/8015

The final completed section of the Navy’s next-generation aircraft carrier, HMS Queen Elizabeth, is today sailing around the Scottish coast to join the rest of the ship.

The aft island, which will control flight deck operations by her F35 jets, Merlin helicopters and other aircraft, was carried down the Clyde on a sea-going barge to head for Rosyth on the east coast.
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Painting her in batteship grey will begin in the coming weeks, the most recent images show that the bow has started being painted the same light grey as the islands have but this isn't the final colour.
 
V

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
spsun100001 said:
You can't beat the RAF when it comes to self-publicity or moving Australia on maps ;)
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It wouldn't be an issue if either politicians didn't fall for it or alternatively if the other services took a leaf from the RAFs book and sold themselves better
 
RobWilliams

RobWilliams

Super Moderator
Staff member
It's tricky for the RN even if they wanted too, IIRC there was a RN presence in the form of a handful of Sea Kings and a SKASaC but that was about it.

Can't see it getting much better due to the nature of this particular event.
 
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StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
It's not like you can stick wheels on a T45 and roll her down the parade is it ? Better to do a superior job of pressing one's case in other areas I suspect.
 
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Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Well I was thinking about the superior job the RN has done time and time again through to this day. They often have less than ideal equipment and support to their job but win through just the same. If anything this has weakened their case as it has given the politicians and public the false sense of security that the RN is more than adequately funded and can actually absorb cuts and still be effective. The RAF on the other hand seem to be very effective in getting the message across that certain capabilities are indispensable for national security, whether they are ever used operationally or not.

I am not saying either service is right or wrong, or even that one is more effective than the other at doing their assigned duties, just that the RAF seems to be much better at selling the need to retain or even grow capability than the other two services. Basically they appear to be better at staff work.
 
RobWilliams

RobWilliams

Super Moderator
Staff member
Hopefully times will be changing, a decade of war in Afghanistan + Iraq has seen us focus very much on the Air/Land strategy for the land campaign. If the recent input by RUSI about the pivot to the Middle East is taken seriously - as I believe it should - then we should be turning back to a Sea/Air strategy and build up a smart presence in the Middle East.
 
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StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Well, not being involved in a land war in a landlocked country would probably help the Navy quite a bit. Oddly, they're contributing a lot, divers (I kid you not...) ASAC, plus a number of sailors are working inland I believe...
 
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