Russian Air Force News & Discussion

[alexkvaskov]

Also another curiosity on those su 35 images posted by havarla. I keep seeing these 2 tone grey cammo on newer planes like these being inducted, and yet I read that after Serdyukov was removed and Shoigu took over the post. He ditched the 2 tone bland cammo scheme in favour of the usual soviet/russian style cammo? So why are the new planes still sporting the grey scheme?

I think that was some journo screwing up again. The article I read was talking about single tone NATO style grey (like the Yak-130), but since the new 34's and 35's aren't like that, I doubt there will be any changes whatsoever. In any case even if they cancel the blue-dark grey scheme, it would take a while to come up with something new and no one is going to repaint the newly built airframes.

 

[Feanor]

Interesting, I was unaware of the Altius-M UAV as you pointed out Feanor. Can you tell me more about this UAV? What are its capabilities in terms of loitering hours and range, and how will it compare to the heavy/medium/light version of Zond UAV's under development in sukhoi ( I hope they are being developed ).

I didn't know the heavy strike UAV project was called Zond, but both projects are still running (the medium recon UAV and heavy strike UAV). Nobody knows what its capabilities are, and even this photo was leaked or "leaked" by accident. It was quickly removed from the original source site.

The Altius seems to be sporting 2 prop engines, I wonder how does that affect it in terms of fuel economy? Also from what can be seen, it doesnt seem to be designed with the usual protuding sensors out the front for recon, nor seem to have any parabolic dish internally for satcom, unless this UAV is really big and it doesnt show.

That could be a model for aerodynamic purposes. The actual prototype might look different.

Also another curiosity on those su 35 images posted by havarla. I keep seeing these 2 tone grey cammo on newer planes like these being inducted, and yet I read that after Serdyukov was removed and Shoigu took over the post. He ditched the 2 tone bland cammo scheme in favour of the usual soviet/russian style cammo? So why are the new planes still sporting the grey scheme?

Shoyga claimed to be making a lot of changes to the policies under Serdyukov, but the truth is there are far fewer changes then he would like people to think. The fundamental military reform will continue with relatively minor course corrections. Shoyga is simply trying to play on Serdyukov's unpopularity to score points. I wouldn't be surprised if the dark grey camo is one of the things that doesn't get changed.

 

[nevidimka]

No I didnt say that the Zond will also be a heavy strike platform, however given the size and its capability, it could easily be adapted to such a role. The biggest of the Zond specifications puts it in the class of the Global Hawk, with equal range and loitering hours capability.

And I do hope the VVS ditches the dark grey cammo as per what mentioned in the media, hopefully.

 

[Feanor]

South MD just took delivery of upgraded Frogfoots called Su-25SM3. Supposedly it can destroy small ground targets in 0 visibility. What this actually means I don't know. This is the first delivery of aircraft (unclear whether of the type (SM3) or just to this airbase).

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/29091/

Also use of the Tu-134UBL and Tu-134Sh training aircraft will continue. They are used for training pilots and navigators for Long Range Aviation. A Tu-204/214 based replacement was considered, but the earliest entry into service date was 2016, so the existing aircraft will remain in service, with additional funds procured for upgrades and overhauls.

http://www.lenta.ru/news/2013/02/18/tu134/

All civilian Tu-134s ended service in 2011 due to age and accidents. It's unclear whether the Tu-204/214 replacement program will go ahead.

 

[alexkvaskov]

Some 500 VDV personnel were airdropped at Shagol airport in Chelyabinsk earlier today as part of a snap readiness exercise. The troops in question are from the 2nd Battalion 217th Guards Regiment 98th Guards Division at Ivanovo.

Wall
Che1902 - YouTube

According to Shoigu, an exercise of such scale is being conducted for the first time since the breakup of the USSR and that unplanned exercises like this one will be held regularly going forward.

I've read elsewhere that another ~6500 troops of the Central MD are to conduct joint exercises with the VDV battalion. 7000 troops is roughly the same size as the Kavkaz-2012 strategic command exercises they held last year and it's great that they are making such large exercises a regular occurrence. Not that the VDV don't already conduct bunches of exercises like this every year, but having regular army motor-rifles units deploy alongside the elite VDV guys should really boost combat readiness.

(thought I would include this in the airforce thread as it has to go with the VVS and VTA)

 

[Feanor]

Caucus 2012 was a pre-planned event. This was done spontaneously. This is more similar to what Soviet units did back in the day. A combat alert would sound, the entire regiment (division, army) would gear up and move out and nobody would know whether it was training or war, until they were fully geared up, out the gate (deconcentrating to avoid nuclear strikes) and receiving movement orders. This of course was on a much smaller scale then what was done in the Soviet days, but it's a much larger event then similar occurrences in recent times. The largest sized element they had done this to post-reform was a Motor-Rifles Brigade.

EDIT: The VVS is planning on ordering 31 Il-78 tankers (Il-478 technically) on credit from UAC. The purchase itself won't be covered under the defense budget until 2017, but the percentages on a commercial credit line are. This brings total orders for the Il-476 to 70, all from the MoD (so far). That fact that they're playing games with budgeting to make it work is telling.

http://lenta.ru/news/2013/02/20/planes/

Also, the 4th An-140-100 for the MoD has been completed, it's aircraft No. 2 of the 2009 contract (1 aircraft was delivered on a separate contract for 1 plane for the VVS, and 1 on a contract with the AVMF). A follow on contract for more planes is expected this year. I wonder if OKR Syemschik will result in actual orders (to replace older iirc An-24 aircraft for the Open Skies observation).

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/462892.html

 

[Klaus]

Is it known whether the MVD still operates own transport aircraft?
They had a fleet of Antonovs, but they were planned to be handed over to the VVS.

 

[Feanor]

Is it known whether the MVD still operates own transport aircraft?
They had a fleet of Antonovs, but they were planned to be handed over to the VVS.

There were plans for them to purchase Il-476 and An-140 based aircraft, so I'm guessing yes.

Also, here's a shot of the second serial A-50U, in grey colors.

bmpd -

Also the An-12PS SAR AVMF planes are being returned to service, because they can't decide on a replacement. I wonder if this has to do with a lack of funds for Be-200 procurement. They're also being modernized with new gear and electronics. A total of 10 exist right now, but only 3 are flyable, and are often used as transports.

Lenta.ru:

Also Su-35S trials are continuing. They will soon be testing weapons use, dogfighting, and engaging small targets such as helos and UAVs. This year 12 new Su-35S are expected.

Lenta.ru:

Finally, the first batch of Ka-52 helos have begun flight training in South MD. A squadron total should be handed over this year.

EDIT: Some Ka-52s have arrived at Korenovsk, a total of 16 is expected this year.

Well this is spectacular. 393rd Korenovsk airbase is now home to Mi-24P and V, Mi-35M, Mi-28N, and Ka-52.

Also, if you look underneath the hull you will see several small balls that look like sensors. Those are supposedly elements of the President-S self-defense suite. The same that was recently installed on the Mi-17-based transport for the minister of defense. It's good to see them on aircraft in line units, but since this Ka-52 is the exact same variant as others without it, I have to wonder if all Ka-52s will be retrofitted with it.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/465687.html

 

[Feanor]

Interesting news, a dedicated SEAD aircraft based on the Su-25 is undergoing trials right now. It's probably a direct response to the problems they had during the Georgian War. The Su-25 is probably not the best choice of aircraft (the Su-34 would be a better one imo) but the production line for the Su-25 is open. They're only going to be putting out a small number of Su-25UBMs, and export contracts aren't forthcoming. I don't know if the same factory does the SM mods, but even if it is it can't be enough to keep the plant busy. The article compares it to US EW planes like the Growler and Wild Weasel.

 

It's designed to lead other aircraft, in SEAD/DEAD operations.

 

[Haavarla]

Interesting. Does it state of many new Su-25UBM airframes?
I think we are talking about stored airframes just like those Su-27SM3, IMO left over from erlier contracts..


On a related issue.. I may have go this wrong but i thought Su-25SM3 was only singel crew attack jets?
And its only upgrades of existing airframes in service?

 

[mAIOR]

Interesting news, a dedicated SEAD aircraft based on the Su-25 is undergoing trials right now. It's probably a direct response to the problems they had during the Georgian War. The Su-25 is probably not the best choice of aircraft (the Su-34 would be a better one imo) but the production line for the Su-25 is open. They're only going to be putting out a small number of Su-25UBMs, and export contracts aren't forthcoming. I don't know if the same factory does the SM mods, but even if it is it can't be enough to keep the plant busy. The article compares it to US EW planes like the Growler and Wild Weasel.

*

It's designed to lead other aircraft, in SEAD/DEAD operations.

More SEAD capable Su-25s? The T version with the Kh58u and the K-25MLU(?) is already a mean beast. Is any info regarding what new systems are being introduced available? Is a version without the laser and a ELINT pod mounted on the nose perhapswhat they're considering?

 

[Feanor]

Interesting. Does it state of many new Su-25UBM airframes?
I think we are talking about stored airframes just like those Su-27SM3, IMO left over from erlier contracts..

No. The problem is that the Su-25UB fleet is running out of resource, just like the other UB variants. There is an objective need for new Su-25UB aircraft. The Su-25UBM is the Su-25UB for the Su-25SM/2/3. Iirc there was like 18 aircraft planned.

On a related issue.. I may have go this wrong but i thought Su-25SM3 was only singel crew attack jets?
And its only upgrades of existing airframes in service?

Yes. Su-25SM3 is a single seater, just like every other Su-25SM variant.

More SEAD capable Su-25s? The T version with the Kh58u and the K-25MLU(?) is already a mean beast. Is any info regarding what new systems are being introduced available? Is a version without the laser and a ELINT pod mounted on the nose perhapswhat they're considering?

As far as I know the Su-25T is not in service. This is probably based on those development. The articles claim that the aircraft will have advanced sensors for detecting radars, determining what type of radar is operating, and means for electronically attacking those radars.

I think this has to do with the victory of the Su-25 based future CAS aircraft design, over the Yak-130 based option. They need production orders to bridge the gap, as well as a way to cover development costs for a new ground-attack aircraft.

EDIT: Airbase 393 just got its second Ka-52, and it also has the President-S system (you can clearly see the two grey balls towards the rear of the helo, in the second pic). I wonder if they can at least phase out all the Mi-24P/V variants, with Mi-28N, Mi-35M, and now Ka-52 all at the same airbase.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/469351.html

 

[alexkvaskov]

Also, if you look underneath the hull you will see several small balls that look like sensors. Those are supposedly elements of the President-S self-defense suite. The same that was recently installed on the Mi-17-based transport for the minister of defense. It's good to see them on aircraft in line units, but since this Ka-52 is the exact same variant as others without it, I have to wonder if all Ka-52s will be retrofitted with it.

bmpd -

Most photos of the Ka-52 show it with the self defense system; it looks like many of the Alligators delivered over the past 1-1.5 years have it.

Some Mi-8AMT/AMSH also have it:
✈ russianplanes.net ✈ наша авиациÑ
✈ russianplanes.net ✈ наша авиациÑ

Does the Mi-35M have a comparable radar to the Alligator's Arbalet?

 

[Klaus]

As the Mi-35M can carry the Ataka missile, it should have one, because the weapon afaik is radar-guided and has a range of 8 km. Whether the Mi-35M's system is comparable to that of the Ka-52 I don't know.
Anyway a new missile is being developed at the moment which will allow the Ka-52 to destroy targets up to 15 km away from the helicopter. So the Alligator's overall effectiveness will be clearly higher than that of the Mi-35M (what concerns destroying armoured targets).

 

[Feanor]

The new strategic bomber project just got approved. It'll be a subsonic flying wing design, that focuses on LO features and flight range. The design comes from Tupolev, and was selected among other designs one of which was hypersonic, and several supersonic.

Lenta.ru:
*

The official NIR program and budget are to be presented in 2014, with serial production post-2020.

An interesting fact, Russian Su-30SM will have some Indian computers on them. They're RC1 and RC2 computers for the Bars radar. A contract for 34 units was signed recently, probably for the second batch of 30 Su-30SM fighters. The real question is, whether a similar purchase was made for the first batch. Apparently RC1 and 2 computers were sold to Russia and Algeria before, via Rosoboroneksport, so it seems likely.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/471136.html

Fun fact, Russian sources seem to indicate that the Indian RC1 and 2 computers are produced in India using Russian documentation possibly under some sort of license agreement.

Also, a nice pic of the Su-35S with 8 RVV-SD missile mock-ups. They're two different colors for some reason.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/471534.html

 

[mAIOR]

So Russia chose to develop a LO platform rather than a hypersonic one. Seems like low detectability is considered by modern airforces as the prime "survival" mechanism. F-35 detractors should read this piece of news.

 

[Feanor]

So Russia chose to develop a LO platform rather than a hypersonic one. Seems like low detectability is considered by modern airforces as the prime "survival" mechanism. F-35 detractors should read this piece of news.

There's that. There's also the fact that the US developed an LO bomber decades ago. If it was possible back then, it would be a lot easier/cheaper with modern technology. It's also a proven concept and they can borrow directly from USAF experience with the B-2s. Finally I'm not sure Russian hypersonic technology and designs have come sufficiently far. Even if they have, it would be a very risky and very expensive program. Consider that even the current GPV-2020 is considered too expensive (by Ministry of Finance), and at the same time insufficient to properly fund all the current programs (by General HQ). So I'm guessing they went for a tried and tested design.

 

[Feanor]

The first A-100 prototype is almost finished now. It's a conversion of a serial A-50. Given that there are a number of A-50s in storage, I'm guessing that's where they're taking the airframes from, to save money. The method of mounting the radar is the same as the current A-50, meaning the A-100 will externally be the same or almost the same as the current A-50/A-50U. It also means that they don't have to use new airframes to put out A-100s, which is good given the limitations of funds they're currently facing. However currently they're planning on serial A-100 production to be on the Izdelie 476 base (Il-476).

There are also a couple of other Il-76 based programs taking off now. The A-90 EW aircraft is in final assembly right now, on the Il-476 base, along with two Il-476 transports. The first flight should take place this year. In principle this is good news. Tu-204/214 output is too low to fill even the Tu-214R and other special variants needs.

Also, apparently the A-60 passed state trials as an anti-satellite laser (a system for blinding satellite optics) and a new variant on the Il-476 is being developed right now.

Also first missile launches using the T-50 will begin this year, and T-50-5 will be handed over to the MoD this year for trials at Akhtubinsk. It will be a fully functional prototype, carrying all the subsystems meant for the serial aircraft.

The M-55 aircraft has been selected as the new UAV controller platform for the three new UAVs currently in development.

Finally there is a packet of MiG-35 contracts for the VVS expected this year, numbering ~40 aircraft. This is probably an attempt to help out RSK MiG which can't find a starting customer for the type abroad. The VVS variant will carry a Zhuk-M antenna. There is also some speculation that China may be in negotiations for the Zhuk-AE radar. If an export customer is found, and the export customer opts for the Zhuk-AE, they may also end up retrofitted to the VVS aircraft. The Zhuk-M is also currently in service with the VVS SMTs.

bmpd -

Also final assembly of the first Mi-28UB has begun, the first flight will occur this year, possibly even deliveries to line units.

ИТÐÐ*-ТÐСС Санкт-Петербург : "Ð*оÑтвертол" приÑтупил к Ñборке первого в Ð*оÑÑии боевого учебного вертолета Ми-28УБ

There was also a high ranking official delegation visiting NAPO recently, and some of the photos clearly show new Su-34s that are almost complete. I wonder if we can see handover to the VVS occur in a more timely manner this year. The plan is a not very ambitious one, 14 aircraft.

 

[Klaus]

Is it known whether the planned MiG-35 deal includes two-seaters? Afaik there are not many MiG-29UB left in service, which could act as trainers for the new fighter.

Yesterday the latest AIR International arrived, it includes an article on the Mi-35M.
A. Mladenov states that the helicopter's sensor suite consists of a DISS-15 doppler sensor, a TV sensor and a FLIR. Maximum firing range with the Ataka missile is 5800 m, in comparison to 4 km for the Mi-24P and 10 km for the Ka-52.

Furthermore, there are rumors that the tu-214R project could be cancelled as the first prototype proved not very effective due to its low flight stability, which is said to hinder the use of its sensors.

 

[mAIOR]

Feanor, can you clarify on why will the MiG-35s not be fitted with the AESA antenna? Is it a cost issue or something else? Also, how wise is it for the VVS to invest in both the Su-35 and MiG-35? It seems that it would make much more sense to keep the MiGs and drop the whole Su project while waiting for the T-50 to become operational with the MiGs being the cheaper of the two. Having an AESA equipped fighter while waiting for the T-50, would probably give the VVS better bang for the buck than with the Su-35.
From previous posts, it appears that the current upgrade programs for the Su-27 family and the new Su-30 MKK2 appear to be more than enough to satisfy the heavy fighter needs until the T-50 comes along no?

I'm asking this as it appears that from some time now, the Russian ambitious programs are being more than they can chew. So, if they need to give MiG a handout and, the Sukhoi bureau is already busy with the T-50, Why not just ditch the Su-35s and use the MiGs instead? Wouldn't the released funds be a blessing to other important projects like the new AWACS and logistic projects...