Russian Air Force News & Discussion

Klaus

Klaus

New Member
It would be interesting to know whether the capabilities and performance of the aircraft as such do not meet the requirements or whether Aviastar simply delivered poor quality.

ruaviation.com reports that a further 12 Su-25 have been upgraded last year, with the same number planned for 2013.
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Klaus said:
It would be interesting to know whether the capabilities and performance of the aircraft as such do not meet the requirements or whether Aviastar simply delivered poor quality.

ruaviation.com reports that a further 12 Su-25 have been upgraded last year, with the same number planned for 2013.
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It's not Aviastar (which is the Ulyanovsk plant) it's Aviakor in Samara. And I think if it was a quality of production issues the MoD could just sue the producer (as they have in the past). But maybe you're right, and it is quality.
 
Klaus

Klaus

New Member
Then I got something wrong. I thought the An-124 was planned to be produced in Ulyanovsk, so it would have been logical that they're also responsible for the An-140.
Does the Samara plant produce only the An-140 or also other types of aircraft?

According to the latest issue of AIR International, RAA will receive about 20 Mi-28N attack helicopters this year, in comparison to 14 in 2011 and 2012. A dedicated trainer version, the Mi-28UB, will also be developed by Mil.
To me, this sounds quite strange as the MoD has already ordered the Mi-35M to train helicopter pilots.

Besides that, the M-55 test aircraft will be used again to carry out tests with new systems, designed for three different UAVs. The designations for these are Inokhodets (light recce UAV), Altyus (similar to US Reaper) and Okhotnik (UCAV). The latter could be the Sukhoi project.
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Klaus said:
Then I got something wrong. I thought the An-124 was planned to be produced in Ulyanovsk, so it would have been logical that they're also responsible for the An-140.
Does the Samara plant produce only the An-140 or also other types of aircraft?
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It produces the Tu-154M and the An-140. It's been producing the An-140 for a while. Note the An-148 is produced at VASO, the An-124 is planned at Avistar, the An-140 at Aviakor. There is nothing logical in producing them all at the same plant, especially when you consider how shitty the condition of all those plants is.

According to the latest issue of AIR International, RAA will receive about 20 Mi-28N attack helicopters this year, in comparison to 14 in 2011 and 2012. A dedicated trainer version, the Mi-28UB, will also be developed by Mil.
To me, this sounds quite strange as the MoD has already ordered the Mi-35M to train helicopter pilots.
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Well a dedicated training helo is better then a different combat helo that can be used for training. This is good news. Purchasing 3 separate combat helos with the same role is insane.

Besides that, the M-55 test aircraft will be used again to carry out tests with new systems, designed for three different UAVs. The designations for these are Inokhodets (light recce UAV), Altyus (similar to US Reaper) and Okhotnik (UCAV). The latter could be the Sukhoi project.
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Honestly, I'm skeptical of these projects. So far Russian manufacturers haven't been able to produce and develop anything but light UAVs successfully. I'm more interested in what happens with the Iskatel complex, which is supposed to replace the Grushas (or supplement, given that there aren't enough Grusha's to go around as is).
 
Klaus

Klaus

New Member
@Feanor: I thought it would be logical that only one Russian company would have to deal with Antonov, who originally developed these aircraft, if it should be necessary, but perhaps some other institution is responsible for that.
I didn't know that the mentioned factories are in such bad shape. The MoD still intends to buy large numbers of aircraft from them, but this wouldn't be the first time the VVS suffers from delays in production.
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Klaus said:
@Feanor: I thought it would be logical that only one Russian company would have to deal with Antonov, who originally developed these aircraft, if it should be necessary, but perhaps some other institution is responsible for that.
I didn't know that the mentioned factories are in such bad shape. The MoD still intends to buy large numbers of aircraft from them, but this wouldn't be the first time the VVS suffers from delays in production.
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This also wouldn't be the first time the MoD makes unrealistic plans with the producers too desperate for finances to honestly tell them that this isn't going to happen. Note, An-140 production is already behind schedule, and they only needed to put out 5 aircraft this year (they built 3). VASO also was only able to build 3 An-148 aircraft, which is actually a decrease in production from last year (when they built 5). And the An-124 is repaired and overhauled at Ulyanovsk, so it makes perfect sense to restore production there. This year Ulyanovsk produced 1 (one!) airplane. The Il-476 prototype.

So when they make plans for An-70 production I have to wonder. On the other hand peak output for the type is only planned at 12 airframes a year, so it's not completely unrealistic, it might just take longer to get there.

Some pics of the T-50-4 on it's way to Zhukovskiy.

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Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Well resumption of the An-124 has been cancelled. They will continue to upgrade existing airframes to the An-124-150M standard. No reason is given, but it's likely that costs and availability of production facilities had to do with it.

Lenta.ru:

The decision about whether to resume the Il-112 project, or to get the An-140T has not been made yet. 5 Options are being considered, resumption of the Il-112 with Russian engines, with P&W engines, purchase of the C-27J, or developing cargo variants of the An-140 or the An-148.

Also a new Kh-38 missile was just accepted into service. It's a short-range air to ground missile, and one of the variants will have GLONASS guidance. The missile will have foldable fins, so it can be carried internally by the PAK-FA.

http://www.lenta.ru/news/2013/01/16/missile/
 
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Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Ka-52 assembly is being set up at Rosvertol, in Rostov. Apparently 16 will be assembled there this year, out of kits sent over from Progress. The helos in question are meant for South MD.

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Haavarla

Haavarla

Active Member
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A longer youtuber of T-50-4. Lots of jucy details.. it allmost look like this vid was somehow leaked..?

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeYyLNjxkHk"]T-50 FGFA - YouTube[/nomedia]


It looks like the APU fires up prior to the engines startup.
 
Klaus

Klaus

New Member
I wonder why they didn't set up a second production line for the Ka-52 earlier. The Arsenev plant can barely produce the numbers required (capacity is to be increased to 24 per year), so if this had happened earlier, the MoD could have cancelled the Mi-28N altogether and wait for the Mi-28NM.
Are the official reasons known for which the Mi-28N has been ordered? As far as I remember there have been problems with the type from the beginning.
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Klaus said:
I wonder why they didn't set up a second production line for the Ka-52 earlier. The Arsenev plant can barely produce the numbers required (capacity is to be increased to 24 per year), so if this had happened earlier, the MoD could have cancelled the Mi-28N altogether and wait for the Mi-28NM.
Are the official reasons known for which the Mi-28N has been ordered? As far as I remember there have been problems with the type from the beginning.
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Well originally the Mi-28 was selected over the Ka-52. Then the Ka-52 got a small order to be a SpetzNaz support helo. Then it got an AVMF contract, and finally a large contract to serve alongside the Mi-28N. Why, I'm not sure.

A few things to consider, the Ka-52 has much lighter armor then the Mi-28N (iirc the Ka-52 is only designed to withstand 20mm impacts, while the Mi-28 is armored to take 30mm). It's max takeoff weight includes 3100 kg of payload while the Mi-28N can carry 3900 kg. Originally it looked like the mast-mounted radar would be ready in time, and the disadvantages of the Mi-28N were consequently not big enough to offset the lobbying power of the manufacturer.

Also, we have some details on the new Tu-214K aircraft. Apparently it's an airborne command post with tactical applications. In other words it's meant to loiter directly above the battlefield, and it will be equipped with photographic equipment, as well as multiple data links. We should expect to see the first aircraft late ~2015.

This is interesting, because the aiborne command posts are also planned on the Il-476, much like the current ones on the Il-76 (the Il-82). Those, however, seem to be pure C4I systems, while the Tu-214K will combined reconnaissance capabilities. Of course practical use of such an aircraft would mean that there can't be any major SAM or fighter threats, which would significantly limit it's application.

ОÐО «Туполев» - У Минобороны поÑвитÑÑ Ð½Ð¾Ð²Ñ‹Ð¹ летающий командный пункт

EDIT: Apparently a contract for 3 more An-140s is in the works right now, at 650 mln roubles each. This is on top of the 11 already bought, and in direct contradiction to earlier statements that the An-140s will not be bought, due to problems with the aircraft's design. They're also buying 7 AW-139s, probably the ones locally assembled in Russia. There are also precontract negotiations for one An-148, and an unspecified number of Be-200, probably in some specialized configuration (given that the price is much higher then the MChS's generic fire-fighting ones). Also the training complex for the Ka-52K will be delivered this year.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/442486.html
 
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Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Update, the second 5 Su-34s that were "handed over" to the VVS last year have just arrived at Baltimore.

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There's pics of the first Ka-52 assembled at Rosvertol here. This aircraft was seen in almost completely assembled form earlier at Arsenyev earlier, to the amount of assembly done at Rostov is minimal.

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Klaus

Klaus

New Member
Finally I got the new AIR International, which includes an article by Aleksandr Mladenov on the Mi-28N.

He writes that until late 2012 more than 50 Mi-28N (plus 7 pre-production helicopters) had been delivered to the VVS, of which 2 have been lost in accidents. In total 120 are to be acquired, from 2016 onwards the Mi-28NM will enter service with the older helicopters planned to be upgraded to the new standard.
The trainer version, the Mi-28NU, will be available sooner, until 2015.

As all current Mi-28s lack a radar, they mainly rely on their FLIR during exercises and maneuvers. It has a range of 7 km, while the NO-25 radar of the Mi-28NM shall be able to detect targets 20 km away from the helicopter. The usual attack tactic is to dive on a target, as firing missiles while hovering is considered ineffective (I don't know why).

Finally, the Mi-28N is compared to its rivals, the AH-1, AH-64 and Tiger.
I'm not sure whether the data given is correct, according to it the Mi-28 only has a max speed of 300 km/h and a max weapons load of 2,4 tons. Its combat radius is 200 km, what is way less than that of the AH-64 (480 km).
 
P

PO2GRV

Member
Klaus said:
The usual attack tactic is to dive on a target, as firing missiles while hovering is considered ineffective (I don't know why).
.
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perhaps operational experience learned in the Soviet-Afghan war from Mi24s getting hit with heavier munitions and missiles?
 
Klaus

Klaus

New Member
That's possible, although I thought the Mi-28 would be more maneuvrable than its predecessor and could use evasive maneuvers to avoid getting hit. On the other hand the Mi-28N too is quite large and thus a good target for manpads or other aa weapons.
 
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